This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.

The original was posted on /r/hobbydrama by /u/JarJarBrinksSecurity on 2024-09-09 16:16:34+00:00.

---

Football is back! And so is my depression that my teams all suck. A couple months ago, I wrote a post about the heated rivalry between the Cincinnati Reds and the Pittsburgh Pirates. At the end, I mentioned that the same cities football teams had a similar explosion. I think it’s underselling it to call it an explosion. So sit back and enjoy the story of what lead up to and what happened in the 2015 AFC Wild Card Game.

TW: I do just want to add a tiny trigger warning. There will be videos of injuries if you’re squeamish.

Here We Are Juggernaut

For those not familiar with the NFL, the Pittsburgh Steelers are one of the premier teams in the league. Not currently at this moment, but historically. The Steelers have 6 Super Bowl championships and are tied with the New England Patriots in wins. The Bengals on the other hand…have none. In fact, the Cincinnati Bengals went 30 years without even achieving a playoff win until they made the entire city of Cincinnati erupt in tears when they finally won in 2021. Just like their baseball counterparts, these 2 teams have a long and sordid rivalry with many, many years of contempt.

Back in 1970, the two football leagues, the NFL and the AFL, decided to merge into one big league. When they made the division, they decided to place the Steelers and the Bengals in the same division. The Bengals were an average team while the Steelers were pretty respectable. The first couple of years were evenly matched with the Steelers winning 5 of the 8 meetings.

But in the mid-70s, the Steelers started their dominance against the entire league. Their defense was given the nickname the “Steel Curtain” because of their shut-down defense. The Bengals were only able to score more than 17 points in 2 meetings over the next 6 seasons and lost 6 straight against the Steelers. Although, the 0-6 Bengals managed to blowout the Steelers 34-10 in 1979. But the Steelers would go on to win the Super Bowl that year.

The tides turned a bit though starting in 1980. The Bengals revamped their team and became legitimate contenders. They snapped the Steelers 18-game home winning streak and beat them in both games that year. This was the first season since 1971 that The Steelers missed the playoffs.

I’ll skip the next 20 years as it’s this over and over again. The Steelers are a better team and even though the Bengals turned into a dumpster fire in the 90s, they still managed to beat the Steelers sometimes. It wasn’t exactly a firecracker of a rivalry yet, but it wasn’t civil either.

Everything Evil

After an abysmal 2-14 season, the Bengals hired Marvin Lewis, who had a Super Bowl win as the Baltimore Ravens defensive coordinator. Although they weren’t a good team, they posted an 8-8 record and had a bright spot in their newly drafted quarterback Carson Palmer. Along with a generational talent in Chad Johnson at wide receiver, the Bengals looked poised to stand atop their division. But the Steelers just one year later drafted a quarterback that is most likely going to be elected to the Hall of Fame, Ben Roethlisberger. This is really where the rivalry started taking off.

The 2005 season saw both teams were fighting for 1st place in their division. When the 2 teams met on December 4th, Bengals WR T.J. Houshmandzadeh took a Terrible Towel (a yellow towel that is spun in the air by fans) and used it to wipe his cleats, which prompted boos to rain down from the Pittsburgh crowd.

And as fate would have it, the teams met up in the 2005 Wild Card game. This is not THE wild card game, but it is almost as brutal. For the first time in 15 years, the Bengals were in the playoffs. And hopes were high. This Bengals team looked different. Every player on this team was part of a well-oiled machine all lead by the Touchdown and Completion Percentage leader, Carson Palmer. But heartbreak would ensue for the city just 5 minutes into the game.

On the Bengals 2nd offensive play of the game, Palmer launched a ball for a 66 yard pass. But as the camera panned back, Palmer was on the ground in pain. What happened was Steelers player Kimo von Oelhoffen went very low on Palmer and rolled onto his leg, causing a season-ending knee injury. Even with Palmer out, the Bengals didn’t lay down and die. Their backup quarterback, Jon Kitna, was no slouch. But it wasn’t enough as the Bengals lost to the Steelers, who would end up winning the Super Bowl that year.

Von Oelhoffen publicly apologized for the hit, but Palmer said that he never received a direct apology but also wasn’t mad as he felt it was part of the game. That didn’t stop fans though. The name Kimo von Oelhoffen is hated throughout Cincinnati sports and brings up unpleasant memories. And although the hit wasn’t against the rules at the time, the NFL would later create a rule that required defenders to take every opportunity to avoid hitting the quarterback at or below the knees when they are in a defenseless position. This dynamic where the Steelers would do something against the Bengals which would then later be made a rule was a driving force in the rivalry between the teams.

Blood Red Summer

After Palmer’s return, the Bengals didn’t falter in the regular season, but would never find success in the post season. But to make tensions even higher between the teams, there were some moments that stick in the heads of Cincinnati fans.

Steelers wide receiver Hines Ward blocks Keith Rivers and breaks his jaw. A rule, dubbed the Hines Ward rule, was put into effect the next season which banned Blindside Blocks.

Steelers linebacker Ryan Shazier hits Giovanni Bernard in the head with the crown of his helmet which knocked out Bernard. It took a couple years but a rule was eventually added to ban this type of hit. Shazier coincidentally tried to do this same hit against the Bengals again a couple seasons later but ended up paralyzing himself.

And some things that didn’t create rules but were also catalysts.

Ex-Steelers Linebacker Joey Porter (we’ll talk about him more in a bit) jumped and assaulted a Bengals player, Levi Jones, in Las Vegas.

During a punt, Steelers player Terrence Garvin hit Bengals punter Kevin Huber with a blindside block and broke his jaw and fractured a vertebra. There was no flag on the play.

There are 2 more rules, but those are important to the story so I’ll save them. And I’m not saying the Bengals are exempt from this behavior (they didn’t have a great reputation for a while under Marvin Lewis), it was pretty one-sided. Bengals fans and players themselves were getting more and more heated as the years went on.

Crossing the Frame

After some tensions in the Bengals organization, big players left the team. Carson Palmer and Chad Johnson were out, Chris Henry who was looking like a future HOF at one point tragically passed in the late 2000s after an accident, and the teams finished dead last in 2010. But in the 2011 draft, the Bengals picked up WR AJ Green and QB Andy Dalton. AJ Green immediately showed greatness and while Dalton wasn’t MVP material, he was enough to get the team to the playoffs. But for 4 straight years, they lost in the Wild Card game, frankly becoming a joke in the league. And although the Steelers hadn’t won a Super Bowl since 2008, they were still firmly a playoff team.

But 2015 was a new year for the Bengals, and it quickly showed. Jumping out to an impressive 7-0 start, which included beating the Steelers in Pittsburgh, the Bengals were top of the league. And although they obviously lost games, they finished a very impressive 12-4. But the real shocker was that Andy Dalton was looking like an MVP caliber quarterback. Even as a Dalton truther myself, this season from Dalton was above his usual performance. But as a Cincinnati fan, you always know never to get content with winning or success, because something always happens to make it come crashing down.

In the week 14 matchup against the Steelers, Dalton threw an interception and in the process of trying to tackle the runner, broke his thumb. Although the team around him was good, many knew the backup quarter A.J. McCarron, could not keep this teams Super Bowl hopes alive. The city didn’t lose hope though. They thought if McCarron could take them far enough into the playoff, Dalton could come back and lead them to their first championship. But now it’s time to talk about the 2015 Wild Card game. Where they would face the Pittsburgh Steelers.

The Gutter

A couple notes before the game itself because we need some major players of the story to be introduced.

Adam Jones (Bengals) – Adam “Pacman” Jones was a cornerback that had a less than stellar off-field persona. I'll just link his Wikipedia page about legal issues because there are a couple. .

Vontaze Burfict (Bengals) – A linebacker that the Bengals signed in 2012. Although he had no off-field issues like Jones, Burfict incited a lot, I mean a lot, of controversy over his play style. He broke the playe...

---

Content cut off. Read original on https://old.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/1fctdmp/football_what_happens_when_a_rivalry_goes/

This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.

The original was posted on /r/hobbydrama by /u/EnclavedMicrostate on 2024-09-09 04:02:33+00:00.

---

Welcome back to Hobby Scuffles!

Please read the Hobby Scuffles guidelines here before posting!

As always, this thread is for discussing breaking drama in your hobbies, offtopic drama (Celebrity/Youtuber drama etc.), hobby talk and more.

Reminders:

• Don’t be vague, and include context.
• Define any acronyms.
• Link and archive any sources.
• Ctrl+F or use an offsite search to see if someone's posted about the topic already.
• Keep discussions civil. This post is monitored by your mod team.

Certain topics are banned from discussion to pre-empt unnecessary toxicity. The list can be found here. Please check that your post complies with these requirements before submitting!

Previous Scuffles can be found here

This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.

The original was posted on /r/hobbydrama by /u/Turret_Run on 2024-09-07 12:27:21+00:00.

---

Game development has changed. Games used to be static, what you picked up at Gamestop was it, any complaints or ideas saved for sequels and remakes. Then came the internet, Early Access and Open Betas, allowing developers to radically change the game over time.  While this can do things like breathing life into failed games, more often it allows companies to chase trends or go back on promises, sacrificing their game and community in the process.  It’s a latter case we’re here to talk about, with one of the most successful games to come out of Steam’s early access program, Ark: Survival Evolved.

Welcome to Jurrasic Ark

Ark: Survival Evolved, is an open world PvP/PvE  Sci-Fi survival game, in which you play as a Survivor, who for the sake of not truncating a beautiful, sprawling story, we’ll say has been dropped into a hellish scenario by cosmic circumstance and no clue what’s going on. 

Your goal is to survive on one of several Arks, developer-made maps based on ecosystems from multibiome islands to scorching deserts to radiated undergrounds. These are split into story Arks, which progress the game's story, and custom Arks, which are designed toward multiplayer and general free-play. In all of them, you survive by managing your physical condition, gaining levels so you can craft new objects, and taming/ battling a diverse array of (mostly) dinosaurs, which all have unique abilities. It’s well loved for two reasons. First the gameplay is a perfect middle ground between solo, story driven- survival games like Raft  and 7 days to die, PvP heavy games like Rust, and open creativity like Minecraft allowing for you to play pretty much however you want and still have a fulfilling, rich experience. The other reason is that it’s hard as shit. 

Under default conditions, Ark is a brutal slog.  Resource gathering, taming dinos, and building out your base all take a ton of time and effort, and all it takes is a surprise alpha or a player with the jump on you to set you back hours. Even  the lore was a laborious task to learn, but I’ll get to that later. Sure you could mess with the server rules and add mods to make things easier, but they never removed the ardor of the game, just made it feasible for an individual/someone on a schedule.  There was always a rush as you worked out solutions to problems,and transitioned from a caveman to Iron Man riding a lazer-shooting t-rex.

The Tek Tier

Tek represents the highest tier of items and ark, and were unique both in terms of style and mechanics. You get the ability to craft most things in Ark by purchasing engrams with skillpoints or finding blueprints in the wild.  However tek tools have Tekgrams, which are unlocked by defeating bosses. A surprising number of players don’t even know those bosses exist, much less fight them. Fighting bosses is a time intensive task, requiring you to delve into  lethal caves to get the artifacts to fight them along with killing the deadliest creatures on the ark. Then you have to breed, train, and equip an army of high level tames to fight them ~~get them to all fit on the goddamn tiny ass staging platform~~ and then actually fight the boss.Here’s a guide video but it doesn’t really encapsulate the time it takes to tame, breed, and find saddles, which serve as armor. 

Once you’ve beaten them, you then have to scour the island for the rare resources to craft the tek items, and then continuously fight the bosses to grind element, which the tek tools run on.  You also couldn’t use Tek items without having the Tekgram, meaning it was only available to those who put in the effort or learned how to cheese the boss of Aberration (spoilers)

Setting the stage

Over the course of 4 years Ark released four story maps, along with several  customs ones. Each one was more exciting than the last, introducing new creatures and biomes and expanding gameplay. They focused a lot more on expanding rather than fixing issues, so there were always bugs, but the quality of the game made it worthwhile. 

In 2018 they released the Extinction Story map,which many players thought was the end of Ark’s story mode. Not only did it wrap up the Survivor’s journey, the map serves as a sort of retirement location for players, providing multiple options for biomes, introducing creatures that provided quality of life improvements, and ways to grind for endgame resources that, while still laborious, were much more convenient. However while Ark was potentially winding down, Its developer, Studio Wildcard, was heating up. 

The popularity of Ark had exploded. Many youtubers have found their niche just playing Ark.  They were planning a star-studded Ark anime, and somehow, Vin Diesal had become one of the company's executive officers. There was still a problem however.  Ark was a success but it was also their only success. They had attempted a battle royale called survival of the fittest in the games engine, but they dropped it as soon as the playercount dipped. They announced a pirate MMO called Atlas in 2018, also using Arks engine, but it was as buggy as Ark with none of the charm and they abandoned it a year and a half later.  If they wanted to ensure the survival of the studio, they needed to draw in a wider audience and make some cash at the same time. And thus came Genesis. 

A New Genesis, but not a good genesis

If Extinction is Deathly Hollows, Genesis is Cursed Child. Released as two maps dubbed Part 1 and Part 2, it was a significant departure from the Ark the community had come to love. Instead of a continuous vast ecosystem, you instead had several smaller biomes you fast-traveled between. Instead of prioritizing base building and survival, you now undertook “missions” which gave you hexagons, a new ingame currency. You spent these hexagons at the Hexagon exchange for resources, which was run by HL-NA, who is a sentient spoiler. The story was also now in your face, with the map having the express goal of having you complete missions to fill the mission meter so you could take on the boss (Spoilers) Rockwell, who you apparently didn’t kill in Aberration. You also couldn’t build on much of the map, as they were marked as “mission zones”. 

Suffice to say it was not well recieved. At all. Along with the fact none of this is what players wanted, The mission structure didn’t work with Ark’s game engine and design. Some of the “easy missions” were impossible due to the system, random bugs, or requiring groups, and some missions labelled as difficult were a breeze thanks to bugs in the players favor.  HL-NA was also not well liked, as she was chock full of MCU-style quips,in particular when you died. Having this quipping in your ear while  watching 12 hours of progress  and your favorite vanish does not spark joy. Half of Ark is about basebuilding, so not being able to build was frustrating and confusing. The map offered an alternative  in a creature you could build a base on, but it was a rare spawn and came with its own challenges .  Most importantly, it completely removed the grind. 

Items that you would spend hours grinding to craft were available as rewards for missions, or the resources to make it were available for cheap. For example , black pearls are required for most tek items, and on most maps require you to go down to the depths of the ocean or kill the most powerful creatures on the map to obtain a handful. On Genesis, they’re 300 hexagons, with the cheapest missions paying out a thousand plus item drops. Even If the quest didn’t get you what you wanted, you could just get them from lootcrates! Because what does a survival game need but lootcrates? Part two of genesis made things worse, with the map being even more sparse, the missions more frustrating, and giving you essentially a full Tek suit, the ultimate weapon of ARK, in the opening cutscene. 

It was also obvious the developers were trying to funnel new players into these maps and away from everything else they’d built. When you start the game, the Genesis maps are at the top of the story map list, while the rest are in release order. If you used HLN-A in the earlier maps she would make remarks at that not only truncate/spoil  Ark’s lore,  but also feel like they’re urging the player to skip these maps and head to genesis while it’s still hundreds of hours away.  Even the st...

---

Content cut off. Read original on https://old.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/1fb5rkj/gaming_the_diesalfication_of_ark_survival_evolved/

This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.

The original was posted on /r/hobbydrama by /u/marilyn_mansonv2 on 2024-09-06 16:52:08+00:00.

---

Note: Most of the primary sources of drama pertaining to this subfandom seems to be missing. I had to rely largely on comments on Derpibooru and Fimfiction to put this together. But enjoy!

What is My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic?

My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic is an animated series that ran from 2010 to 2019 as the fourth generation of the My Little Pony franchise. It centered on, well, ponies, and their adventures and problem-solving using friendship.

An unexpected adult fanbase was spawned from this show, producing all sorts of fanmade content, including erotic content sometimes known as clop. A clopfic is erotic MLP fanfiction.

What is Fall of Equestria?

Fall of Equestria (Not to be confused with Fallout: Equestria) is a dark AU (alternate universe) anthro setting created by non_creepy_nickname (NCN for short) where Equestria has been overthrown by invading, misogynistic caribou and all the mares are enslaved. Using a corrupted version of the Crystal Heart, they brainwashed most Equestrians so that most stallions are now misogynistic like them, and most mares accept their new place as sex slaves.

Mares are classified into four collar types: red for the willing, black for the unwilling, purple for the "mentally broken" and silver for the unclassified. There is also a non-canon blue for "women of honor" and diplomats.

Female unicorns have their horns chopped off and female pegasi have their wings plucked and put into sleeves.

The Rise

The FoE AU started around April 2013. Around that time, the Fall of Equestria tumblr blog was created. It was a combination ask blog, fic blog and art blog. Run by NCN and others, it featured artwork that was often sexually explicit in nature. The blog got taken down several times in 2014 before they just gave up and relegated the stories to Fimfiction and the pictures to Derpibooru.

Anyone could write a FoE fic, but in order for it to be considered "canon", you needed to get permission from NCN. There were rules as well. These included:

1. The Caribou cannot lose and can never be challenged in any meaningful way. They also cannot be made to look bad.
2. All non-Caribou cannot show any greater ability over the Caribou.
3. No happy endings, and mares cannot escape sucessfully.
4. You can't question or disagree with NCN on the setting, else you risk getting ignored or banned.

Among others. I couldn't find a complete list of rules, and the known rules are paraphrased.

The Criticisms and Fall

From its very inception, FoE has been extremely contentious amongst bronies. Many see it trying way too hard to be "edgy" and with its dark themes of rape and mutilation, it's not hard to see why. Many people also considered it to be nothing more than trashy clopfic.

Even those who weren't bothered with the sex slavery aspect had issue with the setting. For example, there was little regard to any of the ramifications of removing the wings of all pegasi mares and stripping the unicorn mares of their magic. Equestria relies on weather manipulation for agriculture, and with half the weather workers removed from their job, that could result in mass starvation due to crop failure.

NCN kept trying to hand-wave the plot holes and setting issues, but I'm not even sure if people took him seriously even when the subfandom was at its peak.

One user pointed out that the Caribou society is far closer to sapient red deer and that if the FoE caribou were anything like real caribou, they'd swap gender roles every six months.

Another user commissioned an art piece where Applejack, Apple Bloom and Sweetie Belle get revenge on the Caribou and posted it on Derpibooru. NCN begged Derpibooru mods to either delete it or mark it as non-canon, and the user was forced to put a disclaimer saying that it was non-canon to the FoE verse.

One member of the FoE circle, Schorl Tourmaline, began writing a fic set in the FoE verse. Called "Bruised Apples", it centered on Big Mac--who was one of the few stallions not brainwashed--trying to comply with Caribou law while also trying to ensure that his sister Applejack stays compliant so that she isn't taken away from him. Schorl spent two years writing the fic, hyping it up and rallied her fans. Then on July 21 2016, she released two chapters that pulled the ultimate bait-and-switch: King Dainn gets attacked and killed by Big Mac and Applejack, then a revolution overturns the control of Equestria back to the ponies.

Schorl was promptly cheered on by most people, but she was shunned by NCN and his followers before her fic was declared noncanon and she was kicked out of the circle. That didn't dissuade her from writing multiple post-FoE fics.

Schorl Tourmaline wasn't the only one to write an anti-Caribou fic. Many others also wrote their own stories where the Caribou get their asses kicked and Equestria is returned to the ponies.

The Aftermath

These days, the FoE subfandom is mostly defunct. There's a small number of people who are interested in the setting and still making art and writing fics, but it'll never grow to the level of popularity that it once had. Anytime it's brought up in the MLP fandom these days, it's typically met with a negative response.

This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.

The original was posted on /r/hobbydrama by /u/Huge_Trust_5057 on 2024-09-04 02:30:50+00:00.

---

Thumbnail

Gee I haven't written anything about hobbydrama in years! This is one of the write ups that I had in my folder that I was going to post after the blackout, but I forgot to do so.

Note: sources and comics are mostly in korean. I put them in for the pictures and references, maybe you could use a web translator if you want to read them.

In south korea, webcomics are considered a very widespread hobby, although koreans prefer to call them "Webtoons". There are many legendary webcomics that shaped an era and was enjoyed by many people. However there is one webcomic, which was so famous, for being so bad. This is the story of Relatable.Jpg, broadly considered one of the worst naver webcomic.

Webcomics Korean webcomic are a bit different from webcomics from other countries. While american webcomics are usually posted on the author's own website, or a website made by a team of a few authors, most major korean webcomics are posted on large webcomic platform sites run by companies, where authors are hired and paid for making webcomics on a regular basis, usually weekly.

Many major webcomic platforms exist, with many IT companies having one. Kakao, who owns korea's largest messaging app, owns one. KT, an internet provider, also has one. Even a food delivery app has one.

However, the one best and paramount webcomic platform is Naver webtoons. If you've ever heard of webtoons, the site, webtoons is a site for non-koreans run by the Line Corporation, which has major ties to naver. Webtoons hosts translated korean comics on naver webtoons as well as some english original comics.

Naver Webtoons is the company that is at the top of all korean webcomics. It has hosted many great and legendary webcomics that shaped the entire history of korean webcomics, and it would be a challenge to find koreans who didn't watch a single webcomic from Naver webtoons in their teens, and many still do.

Being an artist for naver webtoons is the kind of job that children would write as their dream job, and something korean artists daydream about.

How can you become an artist for naver webtoons anyway? Naver webtoons has a "challenge webcomics" feature, also known as the "canvas" in line webtoons site. It's a feature where new amateur artists can host their comics free of charge, but without getting paid. If your webcomic posted here gets enough attention and the moderators of naver webtoons deem you worthy, your webcomic gets moved to "Best challenge webtoons", where your webcomic compete with other webcomics for fame and attention. If your webcomic is good enough, and if you're really lucky, congratulations, you are now hired by naver webtoons and your webcomics are now going on naver webtoons' main site.

This process is a long, hard struggle that, even as a pretty decent webcomic artist, often requires years, if not decades, and many aspiring webcomic makers never make it. It is a throne for only the best webcomics of the nation, after all. But is it?

Whose Idea was this??? In 2016 naver webtoons held a contest for webcomics. The prize? Getting instantly hired as a webcomic artist, without getting through any of the process I listed above. But, it was only open to artists with (nearly) zero former experience of making a webcomic. It was presented as a contest to find absolutely unique webcomics.

However, the contest had a few problems. First, the contest only ran for about 4 weeks, and requred three comic strips. It's worth reminding that korean webcomics usually aren't four-panel comics, usually the number of panels in a single strip go into a few dozen panels. Most artists, even working full time on a comic, upload comics once or twice a week. So excluding the time it takes to actually draw the comics, the contest gave the authors quite a short time to come up with the story and concept of the comic.

When the comics drawn for this contest was uploaded and shown to the public, people realized this was horribly low-quality. But a contest was a contest and the three winners were soon announced.

First comes, . A man pissed by S.korea's conscription, realizing the war is the only reason he needs to be conscripted, singlehandedly sneaks into north korea to kill kim jong un, Doom-style. It was quite poorly accepted at first, but as the story kicked in and the weird sense of humor started to get refined the comic actually was pretty well accepted, later ending the whole series with a not-bad score. 8/10.

Second comes, . A "humorous", slice-of-life webcomic about the author's daily stuggles. It failed. Very badly. The jokes landed flat, the art was below average. It abruptly stopped at 30 strips without any notice. 3/10

And the third one is what today's write-up is about.

Relatable.JPG Relatable.JPG is the third one. It's, from what you might expect from the title, relatable short comics. Sort of like, "isn't it really anxiety-inducing when you take a test and number 4 comes three timez haha" type humor.

Well as you can see, the first thing that's problematic is it's art style.

Wait, before you flak me, I'd like to point out that a good art style isn't necessary for a good comic. XKCD uses simple stickman-type figures, but the simple artstyle and the author's very nerdy humor makes XKCD one of my favorite webcomics. Homestuck, while I gave up reading it after a few front panels, is also another really popular webcomics that doesn't have the best art. The sound of your heart is one of korea's legendary naver webcomics that, in a korean idiom, "if you don't know it you're a north korean spy".(however the webcomic does rely heavily on references to korean culture and the translated version had much less success internationally), which again, doesn't have the best art style. In fact, in some cases, comedic webcomics may actually benefit from a weird, scribble-like art style. Kejang comics is a amateur webcomic that has one of the art styles of all times, but its surrealist and "haha random" humor went perfecly with the art style. It had quite a success and screenshots from the comics are used like emojis on DCinside, korea's 4chan. The comic even got a book! It's worth noting that the publisher of the book is literally named "sorry tree", with a description of , quote, "We make books that may make us sorry for the trees(which were cut down to make this book)."

However, the art style of Relatable.jpg was, well, not beautiful, and this definitely amplifed other problems. Maybe if the content was genuinely funny, people might have considered the art style unique and adding to the funny-ness of the comic. But it didn't.

The whole content, excluding the art, was the real problem. The problem was it was too generic and overused. Relatable humor comics were already being churned out by amateur webcomic authors as early as 2008, and there were already a ton of low-quality relatable webcomics. "Haha isn't it weird when our parents tell us to wake up saying it's 10:00 but it's acually 7:30 haha", "haha doesn't it suck when we eat a burger and all the contents drop out of the other side" "haha where does the eraser we drop go, they always disappear never to be seen again haha" "haha doesn't it suck when you pick a music you like but your friends don't seem to like it haha" stuff. There's an ancient korean site, naver boom, a precusor of naver webtoons, a portion of it was salvaged, and almost all comics on the front page were "relatable" webcomics. It is also worth noting how there are, right now, 670 challenge webcomics on naver webtoons whose title contain the word "relatable"(although some portion of it is probably mocking this webcomic. I'll explain it later). This format was considered pretty dead by the time, and this comic used exactly that.

often, the relatable stuff was already used in other webcomics. For example, ep.5 relied on three "haha isn't it really awkward when you tell your friend goodbye but the bus/train doesn't leave so you just need to stare at each other haha" jokes. This was already used in another webcomics, especially , a really popular webcomic, so there were lots of controversies about the comic ripping off other webcomics.

However, from a purely outsiders perspective the webcomic wasn't that bad! The author used to write an almost similar webcomic somewhere else before it was posted on naver webtoons, and it was accepted quite well! He even got sponsored a tablet from a company for the webcomic, the comic even got translated into ...

---

Content cut off. Read original on https://old.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/1f8ibwv/webcomics_relatablejpg_naver_webtoons_worst/

This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.

The original was posted on /r/hobbydrama by /u/truthisfictionyt on 2024-09-02 16:00:25+00:00.

---

Cryptozoology, or the study of animal science doesn't currently recognize, is obviously controversial. A lot of figures within it have received quite a few criticisms. But one man stands out as the most widely disliked figure: Jon Erik Beckjord or JEB. He was an American cryptozoologist known for some outlandish claims. There are some fun ones, like his theory that Nessie was using wormholes (which he claimed to have captured on tape). He also claimed to have caused the mothman sightings during an out of body experience! But he also clashed a lot with other people, earning the name "The Bad Boy of Bigfootry".

On early cryptozoology and especially bigfoot forums, Beckjord was known for arguing with people. A lot. He was known for making multiple sock puppet accounts to argue with people more. One person I talked to said that people thought he was one of JEB's alts just because he was from San Francisco, where JEB was based out of. Ray Gravel was so incensed by Beckjord that he published a lengthy multi page site of some of his comments. Many of the arguments revolved around Beckjord arguing that bigfoot was a supernatural creature while others like Ray believed it was simply an unknown primate. Here are a couple I found interesting.

JEB: NONE of you guys is a zoologist, nor an ecological zoologist.

Ray: neither are you. You are no more qualified than my cat.

Another conversation:

EB: no matter what, you cannot, and no one is ABLE to kill a sasquatch.

Ray: that's right, they're proven shape shifters. They've been known to change into cats, dogs, horse, owls, sparrows, baboons, snakes, candy bars, trees, bushes, sticks, books, stereos, cheese, yogurt, and throw rugs.

EB: They are not normal, and not prt of zoological system.

Ray: Erik, that's what everyone's starting to think about YOU.

A lawsuit threat:

JEB: Dear Ray Gavel:

My attorney took a look at your new website, and reminds me that I have an Internet business running separate from my museum, and that some people not in any way connected with the Bigfoot area might actually believe some of the defamatory material you have posted on your site.

Therefore, if you do not remove 100% this site, by 6 pm Sat. Pacific Time, he will move to suponea your server to get your personal address and he will arrange to deliver papers to you notifying you of a lawsuit for $100,000

I should remind you that Henry Franzoni and John Horrigan both had defamatory sites re myself, and both wisely terminated these sites once contacted by my attorney. Both sites that mentioned me are now dead.

Mr. Franzoni spent $2,500 on legal advice. Mr. Horrigan is very possibly in jail with the Needham,Mass. Police. The FBI is also investigating mr. Horrigan.

I sincerely advise you to follow my request. Immediately. Furthermore, if not done, in addition to the lawsuit, you will never in your lifetime rejoin the BF201 list, if the site does not disappear at once.

I say this in total, 100% sincerity. I suggest you not argue, for this is not negotiable in any manner. Signed,

Jon Erik Beckjord

Gravel would one-up Beckjord, responding that nothing he said about the man was illegal, saying he had freedom of speech to criticize him, and jokingly threatening him with a million dollar lawsuit of his own.

JEB would respond

**EB:**Freedom of speech, you moron, does not cover defamation of character and libel.

You are a deeply UN-educated man.

I file the papers Monday.

"The Beatings will stop when Morale Improves"

Gravel would fire back with "that's ok, my counter suit just went up another $500,000 because of this email. Hey, you're gonna make my lawyer a very rich man."

Beckjord's lowest moment would come during an expedition with Tara Hauki (She admitted that she's not the best at making a website, so this is my attempt to piece together what she wrote. I may have gotten some stuff wrong). Hauki claims that before and during the expedition tensions started to rise. JEB told her beforehand that her reputation had been tarnished because she talked to another bigfooter he disliked, Tom Biscardi. Hauki was also forced to mediate between JEB and his girlfriend Christine or "Chris" who were in a lengthy process of breaking up at the time. Chris and JEB would frequently scream at each other and Chris would often get drunk (and drive). Chris later drunkingly drove away from the expedition site after several arguments. After this Hauki asked for him to take her home, but Beckjord refused (also guilting her to stay by revealing that he had cancer).

Things would then get physical as Beckjord allegedly hit her in the head with a heavy flashlight during a discussion about the ethics of bigfoot. Then he began to record her as she screamed at him for doing so (seemingly to prove that she was acting crazy). Beckjord would also threaten to leave her in the woods alone, and threatened to call the cops on her claiming that she had hit him with a shovel. As JEB had all the camping supplies in the trailer they were in, he stopped her from eating. When she tried to get in through a side door he grabbed her and threw her to the ground.

Hauki was in a fairly remote area alone, so she left on foot to get the cops. That's when she saw Beckjord began to go though her stuff, so she ran back to stop him (she later claimed he had stolen some of her notes). He then maced her in the face. Beckjord began to walk around the camp with an axe, and threatened to not take her back unless she stopped writing in her journal. He would also leave half eaten food out in front of her while locking her outside the camper. She responded by throwing some of his bigfoot books and other trinkets into a lake Eventually he left, and she was 15 miles away from civilization. Thankfully one man gave her a lift for part of the route while another man (who was actually homeless) bought her some food.

JEB would deny the allegations and respond to some of her criticisms she later posted online with this:

Update: Now she calls me an “Internet Predator”. This is absurd. Those men want sex from young girls. Hauki is 50, looks 60, and you couldn’t pay me to have sex with her. Claims to be 45, but really is 50, claims to have been forced to walk (hike) out 15 miles when the real distance to the paved road is 3 miles, claims I repeatedly hit her when in fact she hit me with a shovel, claims her journal is accurate when it is just a litany of lies, claims to be a maniac, and this is actually true – manic-depressive psychosis – Bi-polar

He also allegedly told her friends that she was "half bigfoot, half alien", said she was half a foot taller than she was, and claimed that she had a crack pipe in her bag. Very graciously, Hauki would attribute some of his actions to him suffering from cancer which he would pass away from in 2008.

In the 1990s during the OJ Simpson murder trial Beckjord tried to sell a "ghost photo" of Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldman for half a million dollars. He tried to sell his services as an anti-terrorism consultant after 9/11, advocating for people to carry spam with them to throw at terrorists. Finally, according to Animals and Men after he died his "acolytes" stated that he was still alive and that his cancer was in remission. The founder of Fortean Times stated: "I wouldn’t put it beyond Beckjord to be dead and still want attention!"

This is one of the final things he posted to his website

My enemies will rejoice. It comes to us all. To some earlier; to some later. Like Rene Dahinden, I have advanced prostate cancer and it has advanced to the bones. I was warned on the Lummi Indian Reservation that if you see Bigfoot/Sasquatch too often, it is a sign they are taking you to them, to join them…Roger Patterson got the best Bigfoot movie of all time, 58 sec, and within four years passed on with Lymphatic cancer (Parkenson’s disease [?] ). Bob Titmus also suffered cancer and he had a number of very excellent sightings. He survived quite a long time but it got him in the end….Bob Gimlim has had four heart by-pass operations. His time, too, is limited….The ride, however, has been one hell of a ride, and I have met some fabulous people, and learned some incredible things. I’m 68, Dahinden was 70, Titmus was in his 80s. I’ve crammed in a life of 200 years into one life

Alongside this post he also tried to sell his copy of the Patterson Gimlin film for one million dollars

Further reading:

The Encyclopedia of Cryptozoology by Michael Newton

The Cryptid Archive Wiki

https://web.archive.org/web/20011019130306/http://www.cgocable.net/~rgavel/index.html

This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.

The original was posted on /r/hobbydrama by /u/EnclavedMicrostate on 2024-09-02 04:02:14+00:00.

---

Welcome back to Hobby Scuffles!

Please read the Hobby Scuffles guidelines here before posting!

As always, this thread is for discussing breaking drama in your hobbies, offtopic drama (Celebrity/Youtuber drama etc.), hobby talk and more.

Reminders:

• Don’t be vague, and include context.
• Define any acronyms.
• Link and archive any sources.
• Ctrl+F or use an offsite search to see if someone's posted about the topic already.
• Keep discussions civil. This post is monitored by your mod team.

Certain topics are banned from discussion to pre-empt unnecessary toxicity. The list can be found here. Please check that your post complies with these requirements before submitting!

Previous Scuffles can be found here

This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.

The original was posted on /r/hobbydrama by /u/7deadlycinderella on 2024-08-31 21:44:48+00:00.

---

So, Ghostbusters. Back to the 80’s right?

Not quite. Our story here starts in 1975.

In the 70’s the idea of Saturday morning cartoons was well established, but the kid oriented weekend block also occasionally included some live action series among its animated brethren. In 1975, one of these was the Ghost Busters on CBS, a live action series starring two bumbling detectives and a gorilla who investigated paranormal events, full to the brim of slapstick and references to classic film (the two human main characters are “Spencer” and “Tracy” and the gorilla is “Kong”). It lasted 15 episodes, and while a modest ratings success (second in its timeslot, losing to the Shazam/ISIS hour) it did not get a second season and faded into obscurity.

Despite the earlier series lack of staying power, Columbia Pictures still had to pay a fee to Filmation to use the name for their unrelated smash hit 1984 classic staring Bill Murray, Dan Ackroyd, Harold Raimis and Ernie Hudson as the titular exterminator/collectors of paranormal apparitions of all kinds. And a smash hit the movie was, being the second highest grossing film of 1984, and at the time, the highest grossing comedy ever made.

And it was especially popular with kids (it’s quite common for adults rewatching to be surprised by how adult some of the humor was- it came out before the PG-13 rating existed and would easily make PG-13 today). And in the 80’s era of Wall Street and cocaine, what do you do with a property popular with kids? Well, one scenario at least, is you turn it into a Saturday morning cartoon. These were even bigger in the 80's than they had been in the 70’s- this was the era of He-Man, the original My Little Pony and Ninja Turtles, among dozens of other series supported by sales of toys, breakfast cereals and other merchandise. A very profitable opportunity indeed, especially since as an era, it wasn’t one burdened too much by “quality animation” or “artistic merit” (also not uncommon nowadays, rewatching your favorite 80’s cartoon and finding absolutely nothing of substance beyond your childhood nostalgia)- cheap, formulaic and easy to mass produce were the rule until almost the 90’s when Disney came onto the afternoon cartoon scene and became a significant challenger.

And it turned out, Columbia got beaten to the punch. The smash success of their film convinced Filmation, a studio well entranced in the TV cartoon biz (possibly second only to Hanna Barbera), to revive their nearly forgotten 1975 series as a cartoon as well, and capitalize on the confusion the identical name would cause. Premiering on September 8, 1986, and airing 65 episodes in daytime syndication over the next 4 months. Nearly universally always referred to as “Filmation’s Ghostbusters” in retrospect to differentiate, it was a flop (TV animation could be cheap enough that yes, a 65 episode series could still be considered a flop), but it did exactly what it was supposed to- confused the viewers as to whether or not it was related to the film. But it ended up being a double edged sword- namely, kids were confused and upset that the series contained none of their favorite characters, and they by and large did not continue to watch. There are even stories of accusations of racism for making Winston, the film character played by black actor Ernie Hudson, into a ape for the series. And most painfully for Filmation, this confusion hit them where it hurt the most- the toy sales!

Not that Columbia would admit defeat. On September 13, 1986, only five days after Filmation’s series began airing, Columbia’s premiered on ABC Saturday morning its own offering (animated by rival studio DIC), utilizing the title that was meant to guide kids watching also taking a swipe back at Filmation- the REAL Ghostbusters.

Despite the name, the animated series was not without it’s speed bumps among devoted franchise fans. Namely, while it contained all their favorite Ghostbusters from the movie, they didn’t look or sound anything like them. To avoid having to pay to use the actor’s likenesses, the animation team completely overhauled the character designs- behold, the poster in which Peter Venkman looks like Bill Murray probably wishes he did: and instead of having the actors voice their characters, the cast was instead filled with professional voice actors, including names like Maurice LaMarche, Frank Welker and Dave Coillier, making the resemblance to the movie characters even more distinct- even the uniforms weren’t quite the same! In terms of writing, many early episodes had plots that had multiple demographic appeal and humor more in line with the movie (the head writer in the first two season was J Michael Straczynski) though these were always toned down for the kids show time slot- primarily by removing the swearing and sexual innuendo. This slowly ended too, most notably after season 2, and the writing became far more typical of a Saturday morning cartoon, primarily as a result of ABC’s attempt to retool the show to be more successful- this also resulted in some changes to the character designs and personalities, and increase in focus on Slimer (eventually including him in the show title!). It sort of worked. The show continued on for several more seasons, but fans are quite critical of these later seasons

In spite of these controversies, the Real Ghostbusters ran for seven seasons, totally over 140 episodes, and produced two spinoffs: a series of shorts focused on Slimer and 1997’s Extreme Ghostbusters, as well as (most importantly in the studios minds) selling mountains of toys. The cartoon is reasonably well regarded among fans, though this affection is primarily restricted to the first two seasons (and bolstered by later interest in J Michael Straczynski’s early work). Filmations’ attempt to capitalize on their original use of the name can’t even say this (though I will admit, its theme song is also quite catchy).

That was hardly the end of the controversies that the franchise faced- including several attempts to get a third movie made, the 2016 gender-flipped remake and the two later reboot sequels, but as so ends what I can write about, being that I never even got around to watching Ghostbusters 2 (and one of these days, my brother might start speaking to me again!).

This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.

The original was posted on /r/hobbydrama by /u/ohthatsnoo on 2024-08-31 14:52:34+00:00.

---

What’s On the Menu?

Someone on Twitter became the subject of an outrage. Roses are red, violets are blue; this is all obvious, I am boring you.

So, what happened? Did our person of interest say something insensitive when they were fifteen? Drink coffee in their backyard? Start fandom discourse? No, not quite. What actually started the whole fiasco was, if the title wasn’t any indication, chili. Yes, really. That bean and meat slop we all know and love would lead to threats, news articles, and over a month of trouble.

Feeling hungry yet?

Appetizer

Please note that a lot of the original tweets have since been deleted or lost to time, and sources are a bit scattered. I tried to piece everything back together as best as I could. I also refuse to refer to Twitter by its new name, after all it was still “Twitter” at the time, so expect that through the whole read.

As a precursor, here’s a visual of the infamous chili for you.

Order Up

On November 7th, 2022, a Twitter user known as “Chinchillazilla” would post a tweet about some college-aged men who had recently moved in next door. She was an artist and animal enthusiast, relatively known on some level, but not a celebrity or anything like that. She was just some person hanging out online, and boy was she about to get more than she bargained for. Chinchilla expressed concerns over her new neighbors in her tweet, as they’d been ordering quite a bit of food–mainly pizza. The only reason Chinchilla knew this was because she happened to see specific boxes in their outdoor garbage can. Not to mention, a few of their orders had shown up at her door by mistake.

She did not express any ill will toward these guys in her tweets, mind you, aside from a few joking remarks. Like any good neighbor, she decided that hospitality was the solution. She declared that she would make them a homemade dish, most likely a pot of chili. Six days after the initial tweet, the chili would come to be.

It’s important to add that for whatever reason, likely just being in the wrong place at the wrong time, Chinchilla had already been a target in previous incidents. One particular person, known as ”Jai”, had long-running beef with her and was fixated on accusing her of racism and transphobia. This individual has been known to start a lot of drama in general, under the guise of social justice. She has doxxed people and started smear campaigns. She and the crowd she runs with are known as the “PAWG Patrol”.

It was suspected that users who lurked in Kiwi Farms type spaces had ignited this backlash, and perhaps other incidents with Chinchilla and her personal circle. However, this has not been proven. Keep in mind that at least some of this controversy was legitimate, but its origins may not have been. Or maybe they were. Who knows, it’s a complicated mess.

If you are unfamiliar with Kiwi Farms and similar internet spaces, it is a website dedicated to the harassment and stalking of individuals that KF users deem worthy of their attention. This ranges anywhere from targeting LGBT people who simply exist, to people who truly are depraved and should be in prison. Regardless, KF users will stop at nothing whether their victim asked for it or not. They’ve caused suicides.

You be the judge on what may or may not be troll behavior. It can be tricky to tell the difference when we’re talking about Twitter of all things.

Perhaps you’d like to order a drink to get through the rest of this?

Dig In

Once Chinchilla had made her intentions to cook clear, people took notice. And when people on certain internet platforms take notice, you know that two things are likely: assumptions and exaggerations. Here are some responses that were given early on:

Imagine just minding your business and some neighbour starts to cook an entire meal for you out of sheer pity Time to reflect on some life choices

for the love of god, stop babying men. this is why they learn to take advantage of their wives. give them a cookbook and fuck off. encouraging women to cater to men like housewives.

Don’t feed them, if they never learned to cook for themselves that’s their issue

Well I don’t know about any of you, but I can feel my brain dissolving into soup. No, I won’t cook up my soupy skull meat for you, don’t worry.

Luckily, some people were kind and rational in their responses. Many pointed out that in other cultures, food-sharing is integral in society. Chinchilla held her head high as the debate ensued, and continued updating her story. She attempted to deliver the chili, but the neighbors wouldn’t answer their door. It was then stored in her freezer, and things escalated from there.

One particular user stated that “if some random WP” [white person] made them “the saddest little ground beef and vegetable dish” and didn’t ask first, they wouldn’t answer their door either. They went on and on about consent. Need I reiterate that this was about CHILI? A food that often resembles my cat’s barf (but sure tastes better), and it was being spoken about as if it were a topic of morality.

Another user replied to this person. User “B” made a bizarre comparison in their reply to not only wheelchair etiquette, but infantilization of the elderly. User “A” was more than pleased with this analogy. A did bring up decent points about dietary restrictions and Covid germs being risk factors for shared food, but it was immediately undermined by them continuing to drone on about poor boundaries. As if Chinchilla were some pervert prowling the neighborhood.

Somebody on tumblr made bold claims that Chinchilla was a racist, TERF, and stalker. Their argument twisted everything into people condoning the chili-giving with outdated 1950s values. Once more it was portrayed as our subject being the town creep. No sources to speak of were provided for these claims.

Ironically, actual TERFs were targeting Chinchilla at the very same time she was accused of being one. Some were spinning it into her being transgender, and attacking her for that assumption specifically. A user went so far as to say that semen was put into the meal. As far as any source shows, Chinchilla is a cisgender woman, and has never expressed bigotry toward anybody.

At one point someone else had made, get this, their own thread about the situation which totaled around forty-two tweets. So this person apparently wrote the equivalent of a large essay because of various hypotheticals, the main one being that Chinchilla didn’t consider that the neighbors might not have bowls.

Personally, I think it’s safe to assume that if you cook a whole dish for someone, then you’re also generous enough to share dinnerware if necessary. Nevermind that mugs, plates, and tupperware exist and people are bound to have at least something in their house to begin with. You can buy bowls at the dollar store if it’s such an issue.

Another accusation of ableism, specifically not accounting for the sensory struggles people with autism face, occurred. Turns out Chinchilla herself is autistic. My, how the tables turn.

Allegedly, another individual compared the chili-giving to incest, though only references to it remain. (EDIT: u/sloopster found the origin, which I was not lucky enough to find myself.)

Chinchilla eventually locked her twitter account so that only her followers could interact with and see her posts. People started dubbing the situation “Chiligate”. News sites even posted articles about the backlash; some were supportive of Chinchilla, while the Washington Post…well, wasn’t. Reporter Emily Heil failed to properly investigate the incident, and helped spread baseless claims to the public. She took it a step further and recruited some so-called experts on the matter, who really just insulted Chinchilla’s actions rather than offering anything useful. As with most of the responses, it relied too much on hypotheticals.

At some point, apparently before the article was posted, the chili was FINALLY delivered to the neighbors. Did the world end? No. As it turns out, people in the real world thrive off of community. The neighbors were reportedly happy with the gesture and even offered their own kindness in return. The article did n...

---

Content cut off. Read original on https://old.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/1f5p37b/cooking_chili_with_a_heap_of_salt_how_an_act_of/

This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.

The original was posted on /r/hobbydrama by /u/KingOfTheUzbeks on 2024-08-29 03:14:34+00:00.

---

Zoos.

I'm pretty sure you know what these places are. They are defined by Wikipedia as “a facility in which animals are kept within enclosures for public exhibition and often bred for conservation purposes.” I'm sure you could find Zoos that are excluded by this definition and non-Zoos that are included. But this is not a Hobby Drama about the definition of Zoo.

Zoos are traditionally thought of as something that if not exclusively for children, are very much a family activity. But, if there is one thing r/hobbydrama has taught me, it's that the Internet has an inexhaustible amount of adults unhealthily interested in things. (That's me, I'm the guy unhealthily interested in zoos.) 

Of course, Zoos are not just niche blog subjects, or a toy line forgotten by all but a hardcore few. They are a big deal out in the real world. American Zoos combined to over 183 Million visitors in 2018. Which is more than Disney World manages, although obviously there are a lot more zoos than there are Disney Worlds. (Although one quarter of Disney World is just a zoo with some rides…)

Most Zoos are some form of non-profit entity. Some are owned and operated by cities (Como Zoo in Saint Paul), states (Minnesota Zoo in Minnesota), and even the Federal Government (the National Zoo via the Smithsonian). Others are owned and operated by non-profits with very close links to the local community (Detroit Zoo in Detroit). So drama at the zoo is drama involving something held in trust for the people.

Zoos also have animals in them. Many of them cute. Some of them endangered. People like cute, endangered, animals. So if anything might happen the animals, well…that's a big deal too.

So when Zoo drama goes down, yes the forums talk about it. But it's also going to get picked up by the media. 

So, without further ado, here is the tale of how one of the most respected zoos in America went through the wringer, and lost a lot of respect along the way.

What Makes A Good Zoo?

But first, let's talk about what makes a zoo respected in the first place. 

Zoos have always held themselves a bit above things like circuses in terms of animal care, but If you look back at old enough zoo photos, you will cringe and you will feel sad. Cages everywhere. Animals trapped on slabs of concrete. This is not a long gone issue either. 

Until 2007 they were keeping an Elephant in Alaska. And if you Google “Blackfish” you'll learn some terrible terrible things if you haven't already. 

Even leaving aside obvious abuse, there is a growing understanding that keeping certain animals well comes to mind takes a lot of time, manpower, space, and money. Elephants, Great Apes, and Dolphins, for example, are increasingly being chased out of small operations that lack resources to properly care for them. 

In this context, who watches the watchmen? 

In some cases, the Federal Government regulates Zoos. The Department of Agriculture has regulations relating to the care and upkeep of animals, under the Animals Welfare Act. The US Fish and Wildlife Service handles animals covered by the Endangered Species Act, including the international CITIES(Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora) framework. The EPA has a hand, what with the dangers of invasive species and such. OSHA, also, regulates Zoos, although more on the employee side. Apparently large carnivorous animals can be considered “safety hazards” by the federal government. State agencies may add additional layers. 

However this is a fairly patchwork set up, hardly a comprehensive guide to running a zoo. Different acts and different agencies, none of whom see zoos as their number one focus. Meeting the bare minimum standard is not ideal for producing a good experience for guests or a friendly environment for animals. 

If, hypothetically, you were to buy a zoo like Matt Damon did in We Bought a Zoo and merely obeyed the above guidelines you could open a zoo. Or a wildlife sanctuary. But it would not necessarily be a good one. 

Think Tiger King. Or the sort of conditions that proceed a plucky child freeing the animals in a movie. These sorts of operations often have deep links to the illegal exotic pet trades, and have a generally poor record of health and safety for animals and humans alike. Among hardcore zoo people being labeled a “roadside zoo” is among the harshest criticisms imaginable. 

This is where the AZA comes in. The Association of Zoos & Aquariums is the big name you need to remember, when it comes to zoo accreditation.

The AZA, is, as the name suggests, an association of the top tier of zoos in the United States. They have their own set of standards. And not just for zoos in general. Many animals have their own Animal Care Manuals published by the AZA. For example the ACM for the Greater Roadrunner (meep meep) requires:

• Limits on the temperature of their exhibit (between 40° and 100° F)
• Features their exhibit (must have places to perch, hide, and run)
• Recordkeeping of the birth, life, and death of every roadrunner in captivity.
• Each bird must be identifiable
• Nutritional Tables be followed
• Veterinary care
• Any shared exhibits be restricted to a given list of other animals

And much more. And this is an animal that is neither endangered, nor a major attraction for zoos or concern of the public. 

There are even more stringent requirements for certain animals (elephants, dolphins) as well as animal ambassadors. Those are the animals that keepers might bring out for a show, or to pet, or to schools, or to lobby politicians. Since animal ambassadors are moved around a lot and face new environments, they often have a lot of stress. So there are additional requirements for them. More documentation, more costs because having compliant transportation is pricey, and to cap it all off all of the really eye-catching animals (apes, big cats) are not particularly viable to bring out as ambassadors.

Moving animals around in general is, as you might expect, something of a hassle both for the animals and for the zoos in question. But it happens all the time, via the animal exchange system. 

The AZA generally tried to avoid straight “cash for animals” exchanges. Instead they tend to utilize transfers between members. Sometimes these are just temporary transfers, “we're renovating, can you hold our rhinos for a bit,” or “can we borrow a male Zebra so we can breed our mares.” Others are more permanent swaps. A wolverine for one of your pumas to replace the lynx that died. Transfers can fill empty exhibits and free up overpopulated ones.

AZA rules require that “animals are not transferred to those not qualified to care for them properly”. Transfers to non-AZA members ARE allowed, but require due diligence, and support from AZA members familiar with the destination facility. AZA members are also supposed to take care in who they get their animals from, vetting them carefully to avoid creating demand for the illegal animal trade. 

Animal transfers are also managed by Species Survival Plans. These are, well, plans to help a species survive. Drawn up under AZA guidance, these SSPs look at current population, genetic outlook, breeding success and other factors. Animals under SSP are moved around in the hopes of a successful captive breeding program, often being loaned instead of fully transferred. There is a large degree of micromanagement in this process, but it has led to success. Successful reintroductions, like the California Condor and the Black Footed Ferret have their roots in AZA SSP breeding programs. Many big name animals have SSPs, elephants, komodo dragons, giraffes, hippos, and tigers for example. Not every animal with a SSP is actually part of the SSP program (see the tigers in Tiger King) but participation in the AZA and SSP is one of the few ways of getting these animals for a zoo.

Compliance with SSP and AZA requirements can be expensive and complicated. In the interests of ensuring animals have homes that are not going to get foreclosed soon, the AZA requires financial disclosure as well. Revenue, plans for a catastrophic decrease in revenue, leadership that is engaged with the conservation mission. One way of getting funding is AZA grants, including SSP program supports, which of course are only available for AZA members.

It's you're thinking “hey this is kinda like a cartel” you are not alone. The AZA has been criticized for keeping anim...

---

Content cut off. Read original on https://old.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/1f3siqy/zoos_we_broke_the_zoo_how_one_of_the_nations_best/

This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.

The original was posted on /r/hobbydrama by /u/brothermoscow on 2024-08-28 14:16:23+00:00.

---

What is Sword and Sorcery

So, before we get into the drama, what hobby are we actually talking about? Sword and Sorcery is a sub-genre of Fantasy fiction, and like anything that has a small body of very passionate fans (looking at you, extreme metal) debates and arguments over what exactly is Sword and Sorcery (S&S) abound. What is mostly agreed on is that it is fantasy focusing on personal stories, full of adventure and horror, with protagonists morally grey and out for themselves, and there’s often plenty of overlap with the Mythos of HP Lovecraft.

What is definitely agreed on is that the founder of the genre was Robert E Howard, an American author from Texas, who wrote hundreds of short stories in the 1930s, selling to pulp magazines such as Weird Tales, before he tragically committed suicide in 1936 at the age of only 30. You have definitely heard of his most famous character, Conan, also known as Conan the Barbarian and Conan the Cimmerian (though you may well also know Kull of Atlantis and Solomon Kane too). Perhaps more than any other genre, the single character of Conan and the short stories he stared in define S&S. Conan is a rugged, morally grey character who fights for himself and for gold, plunder and women. He fights men and monsters across a mythic ancient Earth in what Howard dubbed the Hyborian Age. He adventures are a lot of fun and continue to draw in fans today and see many spin offs such as comics, films, RPGs, video games, new novels etc.

Since Conan’s debut, S&S has enjoyed peaks and troughs of popularity. The 1982 Arnold Schwarzenegger film Conan the Barbarian, along with the 1966 – 1977 Lancer/Ace series of paperback collections of Howard’s work, which also featured lots of fix-ups and reskins of Howard’s drafts, notes and non-Conan stories by the series editors L Sprague de Camp and Lin Carter along with some of their original pastiches (and which could be its own drama or scuffle), many featuring iconic cover paintings by Frank Frazetta, ensured that the 1970s and 80s saw the height of S&S love, and plenty of paperback originals by many authors filling bookshelves. Some of these were great, some terrible, some lead to BDSM sex cults (see Gor).

Now, the original Howard stories were definitely products of their time, and are about as racist and sexist as you would expect stories written in the 1930s for young white America men to be, unlike, say, some of the things HP Lovecraft wrote and said (though, that being considered, some such as Shadows in Zamboula, are still hard to read today due to racist language and stereotypes). However, S&S’s appeal is broader, and from nearly the beginning there were women writing S&S adventures about female heroes such as CL Moore’s excellent Jirel of Joiry. Later, reacting to their enjoyment of the pure adventure and thrills offered by S&S but rejecting the old-timey racism, authors such as Charles R Saunders pioneered S&S staring black heroes and with fantasy rooted in African history and mythology; since Saunders’ sad passing, people like Milton Davis are still carrying the banner of so called ‘sword and soul’.

I say the above to show that, while S&S started off as stories about a buff white dude fighting exotic people (and it must be said he kills plenty of civilised white people too) and having women swoon at his feet, the appeal of S&S crosses race, gender and continents (Akogun is a recent 3 part comic to come from Nigerian writers and artists, for example). But, as one may sadly expect, S&S also attracts the sort of people who hate women and POC being the stars of stories and don’t think about the multifaceted way even Robert E Howard wrote about women and POC in some of his stories; no, they love S&S because it is stories about manly (white) men doing manly (non-womenly) things (see also the sort of people Warhammer 40K attracts, along with all the normal nerds). There are certain publishers associated particularly with this more reactionary style of S&S, and more progressive fans often face a hurdle when spreading the love of their favourite genre because many non-fans associate all S&S with reactionary types.

Finally, I will mention that I do consider S&S to fall into the category of ‘hobby’ these days. There’s a fandom, of course, but in this present age S&S has fallen quite far from when its paperbacks filled racks in bookshops. A lot of the fans of S&S are also professional and amateur writers, and both kinds often mix together and contribute to the community in a way that is rare in other literary genres. I myself, a dabbler in writing in my spare time, have appeared in amateur e-zines alongside authors whose novels you could borrow from the library. And readers/writers have their own Facebook groups and Discords, publish their own ’zines and amateur magazines and anthologies, and in general the whole genre-dom has a closeknit, punky vibe to it (hence why I am posting on my ancient reddit account instead of the one with the same username as my discord!). And being that the whole community it pretty niche and closeknit, the divide between those who hold progressive ideas about the genre and society in general and those who hold conversative ideas about the genre and society in general can be pretty pronounced and lead to some drama.

Who is Robert M Price?

Robert M Price is a New Testament scholar and writer, critic and editor of speculative fiction (principally of the Lovecraftian and S&S types). He has written a number of books exploring historicity (or lack of) of Jesus (considering himself a Christian Atheist), but more importantly for us, has edited many dozens of speculative fiction anthologies and he is also the literary executor of Lin Carter. You may remember that name from earlier – Lin Carter was one of the people responsible for putting out the Conan paperbacks back in the 60s and 70s; he also wrote plenty of his own fiction, which usually falls into the cheesy but fun category, and edited magazines and anthologies. One of these was called Flashing Swords! which ran to five volumes published between 1973 and 1981. And in 2019 Robert M Price decided he was going to resurrect Flashing Swords! for a 6th anthology.

Flashing Swords! #6 part 1

This caused quite a bit of excitement in the S&S community. Afterall, getting new stories to read is always nice in such a niche fandom, and as well the Flashing Swords! series was venerable and well regarded, thought of as a key part of the S&S renaissance of the 1970s mentioned earlier, and Price was well known in the community as editor and author of many anthologies and stories (though some of those more intimately involved in S&S and Lovecraftian circles already knew of his very reactionary views and they had caused comment before). So new S&S stories were written, submitted to Price, rejected or accepted as is usual for a submission call for short stories, and soon the anthology had taken shape. It was to contain 12 stories, including a new story, written by Adrian Cole, starring Elak of Atlantis, another early S&S hero created by Henry Kuttner (husband of CL Moore who wrote the Jirel stories) in 1938. In July 2020 it was published on Amazon by Pulp Hero Press.

People were excited. People started to read the preview available (as the book was set to pre-order). And people read Price’s introduction. Authors featured in the anthology also read Price’s introduction, which they had not seen prior to publication. And suddenly a lot of people got quite upset. Because rather than the usual sort of introduction fare, in which the editor gives a brief history of the genre, praises the stories contained within, and hopes the reader enjoys them, Price instead had decided to use his introduction to deliver the sort of rant one’s Reform voting/ MAGA hat wearing uncle might deliver at the post-Christmas/ Thanksgiving dinner get together. Price criticised feminism, defended pornography (in a way that was very misogynistic*), argued against rape-culture being a thing, and railed against gender neutral language. Some sources also state racist talking points were raised, although I couldn’t confirm that (though Price is on record elsewhere, attacking Black Lives Matter and Barack Obama using familiar racist talking points).

As I mentioned, the included authors were not aware of the contents of Price’s introduction, and many of them were not best pleased to discover their name was now attached to a screed they profoundly disagreed with. Contri...

---

Content cut off. Read original on https://old.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/1f3bccc/hobby_drama_flashing_swords_6_how_sword_and/

This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.

The original was posted on /r/hobbydrama by /u/IHad360K_KarmaDammit on 2024-08-27 22:05:00+00:00.

---

Before you read any further, I want you to think about Fruit of the Loom. Yes, the clothing company. Just picture their logo to yourself and remember what it looks like before reading on.

Did you picture something like this? Because if so, you're wrong. That cornucopia in the background isn't there, and never was. It's just a pile of fruit. (If you only remembered a pile of fruit, then congrats on being correct.)

This is one of the best-known examples of what's often known online as the Mandela Effect, in which large numbers of people remember something wrong in the same, very consistent way. And you're definitely not alone if you remember the cornucopia, as large numbers of people online insist that they've seen that logo. Animated movies and cartoons show a similar logo on clothes, complete with cornucopia. Books from long before this became an internet phenomenon casually mention the Fruit of the Loom cornucopia, going all the way back to the 1960s. A 1973 Frank Wess album, Flute of the Loom, parodies the FotL logo, complete with cornucopia-shaped flute.

None of this stuff is official or sponsored by FotL, and the company itself has never used anything resembling the cornucopia logo, but for whatever reason, large numbers of people over a period of decades have incorrectly thought that it did. And while some of these could be faked, or just the result of people pretending to "remember" this logo for attention, there are enough people who insist they remember the cornucopia that faking it would require an enormously, unrealistically elaborate conspiracy.

That's just one well-known example of the Mandela Effect, though. This post is about a different example--how do you spell the Berenstain Bears?

Who are the Berenstain Bears?

They're a family of humanoid bears who have funny adventures and learn valuable lessons through a series of children's books selling over 260 million copies, multiple TV shows, and a merchandising empire with enough toys, video games and spinoffs to rival Garfield or Pokemon. They're named after the original creators of the series, Stan and Jan Berenstain, and they've been around since 1962.

They are, notably, not called the Berenstein Bears. This does not stop large numbers of people from insisting that they are.

This claim is mentioned online going back to the mid-2000s, but the first place it really got popular was a 2012 blog post and its 2014 follow-up. Or at least they were pretty popular and the comments have a lot of funny drama, so I'm going to assume they played a major part in the history of misspelling Berenstain and go with that. Both posts discussed the weirdness of discovering that the blogger's memory of the Berenstein Bears was completely incorrect, and semi-jokingly suggested that it might be due to a separate hexadectant of four-dimensional spacetime overlapping our own. The Berenstains' son (or someone claiming to be him, at least) even showed up and confirmed that Berenstain is the correct spelling. These posts got hundreds of thousands of views and hundreds of comments, all of which, of course, were perfectly reasonable, polite and sane, as you can see from these examples:

"You're an idiot. AND an a-hole. I imagine your pleasure stick is pretty insignificant as well."

"String Theory demonstrates 10 (not 11) total dimensions of space-time with 4 (H,W,D+time) observable and 6 unperceivable. The 6 "unknown" are in actuality multidimensional links to 6 alternate universes that "travel" grouped in interwoven timelines which are in turn linked to 6 other alternates (to infinitus) within a fullerene structured membrane loop. Our conscience mind can only be aware of one timeline at a time, but can "switch" awareness any of the 6 linked alternates at a quantum half-step of the membrane's "clock" that synchronizes the grouped time-lines "physical" strings."

"I call bullshit on "anonymous berenstain". TROLL. I remember the spelling. My family remembers it. EVERYONE I ASK TO SPELL IT FROM MEMORY SPELLS IT WITH AN E."

"Teaching Children the Gospel doesn't do shit. I know it for a fact, if there was a god, then nothing in the world that is considered as "bad" would ever happen."

"Well Anonymous if you would bother to read and researh the Bible then you would know why there are bad things going on. So unless you read the facts please don't make say that what you say is facts. Ok ?????? Thank you and may GOD forgive and bless you. Here is a well known fact -- there are no athiest in a foxhole !!!!!"

"The Berenstein Bear books were indeed "parallel reality" books. They are markers from Odin himself. It means your parents would rape you if they could get away with it. Luckily the manner of how the matrix works means nothing really happened. Remember that dream you had of 2 men stealing you and covering your mouth so you can't scream? I guarantee everyone from the Berenstein universe had this dream, Berenstain universe may or may not.

I promise great retribution. My soul will not allow for any other outcome.

Everyone gets to be janitor God for some amount of time. Lucifer is far below the great devil. Knowledge is poisonous to our stories. Throwing us away from direct experience is the ultimate sin. The glitch is specifically for the alchemical power of the bear. The bear is Lucifer's sons alchemical animal."

"Stop wasting our time with the crappy conspiracy of yours just because you and many people of this earth are too retarded to read. Shameful."

"You people are insane. Get meds."

"We started reading them to our first two children, but my wife noticed that the father bear was ALWAYS wrong and ended up looking stupid. She refused to give our children that input, and banned the books from our house -- and, I believe, the church nursery she directed. But as much as we hate the books, we KNOW they were Berenstein."

"Elite agenda to make father figures seem stupid and incompetent (see Homer Simpson and Peter Griffin). Promotes feminism."

"The problem is uneducated and a large number of rather ignorant Americans. People who cannot even spell and read/write in their own fricking native language. Just go out "on the net" and see how people have problems with simple things like there, their, they're, "would of" <-- Cheezus Christ and even more abominations. Because of this I don't buy for one $0.01 what the typical American thinks how it was spelled. BerenstEin or BerenstAin sure would already be way over many people's intellectual capabilities, let alone their ability to correctly remember the actual spelling."

"Maybe draw attention to the true jews?? Also anagram to inner beast and stain anagram to satin. A poor spelling. Changing the name just have a satanic fascist memory whole vibe to me."

Further Events

As for further events in the "misspelling the name of cartoon bears and insisting you are right" fandom, well, there aren't really any. Oh, certainly, people continue to argue about it on the internet. Every few years some clickbait website will run out of celebrities to gossip about and make a post about how "Your CHILDHOOD MEMORIES About the Berenstein Bears are WRONG!"

But ultimately, every discussion of this--or any supposed Mandela Effect--just involves the same three things that already appeared in that comment section back in 2012, repeated over and over. The first one is "I remember this, and there is no way I could possibly be wrong about it, and it must have a paranormal explanation". The second one is "You're just remembering wrong and you're stupid". The third one is pure, undiluted madness in the form of nonsensical rants about God and Satan and quantum parallel universes and probably the Jews.

Ultimately, the truth is that even if imagining parallel universes surrounding minor details of your favorite cartoons is a fun hobby, the Mandela Effect is pretty easily explained by people remembering stuff wrong. And there are plenty of reasons why they would make that mistake! Most children will be familiar with names like "Einstein" and "Frankenstein" by the time they start reading about the Berenstain Bears, while -stain names are very uncommon. The voice actors on the various TV adaptations often pronounce the name incorrectly as "steen" or "stine", so kids might assume that the spelling matches that. And the titles are always in cursive, in which a lowercase e and a look very similar, es...

---

Content cut off. Read original on https://old.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/1f2tmu7/cartoons_invaders_from_a_bearallel_universe_the/

This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.

The original was posted on /r/hobbydrama by /u/EnclavedMicrostate on 2024-08-26 04:02:25+00:00.

---

Welcome back to Hobby Scuffles!

Please read the Hobby Scuffles guidelines here before posting!

As always, this thread is for discussing breaking drama in your hobbies, offtopic drama (Celebrity/Youtuber drama etc.), hobby talk and more.

Reminders:

• Don’t be vague, and include context.
• Define any acronyms.
• Link and archive any sources.
• Ctrl+F or use an offsite search to see if someone's posted about the topic already.
• Keep discussions civil. This post is monitored by your mod team.

Certain topics are banned from discussion to pre-empt unnecessary toxicity. The list can be found here. Please check that your post complies with these requirements before submitting!

Previous Scuffles can be found here

This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.

The original was posted on /r/hobbydrama by /u/diamondsandglass on 2024-08-21 23:16:41+00:00.

---

Disclaimer: this post is based on the stories of former dancers/employees and on my own opinions. I am not and have never been affiliated with Ballet 5:8 and don’t know the people involved personally. Also apologies for any formatting errors, I'm on mobile.

This is a little different from my usual ballet drama posts because there are no articles about it. I usually like to include additional reading at the end of my posts, but in this case this information is majorly sourced from a single podcast episode and personal testimonies here on Reddit. These are generally not the most reliable sources, and most middle school teachers would give me an F for academic sources. However, there are reasons dance journalists probably aren’t covering this.

Most of the time when ballet company stories break into mainstream news it’s because there’s a major lawsuit being filed. This was the case with the New York City Ballet texting scandal, something I will probably cover in a future post. In this case however, there has been no lawsuit filed against Ballet 5:8, nor is there likely to be. Without mainstream attention or a high-profile sponsor, it’s prohibitively expensive for dancers to stage a lawsuit against their company (which is likely to already have a lawyer and more resources than individual dancers).

In addition, ballet is very quick to protect its own. It’s a fairly niche industry with not a lot of outside oversight. Artistic directors of various companies often danced together growing up and still communicate with each other. If a dancer at one company speaks out about mistreatment, they’re likely to get labeled as difficult to work with and find it hard to get hired elsewhere. This leads to a culture of silence around things like eating disorders, harassment, and even cult-like behavior. Sometimes all three.

Luckily, I am an internet rando who has nothing to lose. The stories shared by former dancers at Ballet 5:8 deserve to be shared more widely. If this story stays in niche ballet communities it’s likely to die out. More importantly, when people Google Ballet 5:8 to find out whether they should send their kid there, I’m hoping this post comes up to give them second thoughts.

Content Warning: verbal abuse, eating disorders, religious trauma

What is Ballet 5:8?

Ballet 5:8 is a ballet company based in Chicago, Illinois. The company is named after the Bible verse Romans 5:8, “but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” They’re explicitly Christian, with their mission including to “engage audiences in a conversation of life and faith.” Anyone looking for a job with them is asked to include a statement about their Christian faith along with a resume and headshot. If hired, dancers are required to affiliate with a local church and attend service every Sunday. According to former dancers, every rehearsal would begin with a round of prayer, which later became an hour of prayer during lunch. These prayer rounds would be led by rehearsal directors and sometimes the owner of the company.

Why is it being called a cult?

For those not familiar with ballet’s customs, taking time out of a busy day of rehearsal for everyone to pray together is abnormal (most ballet companies are completely agnostic), but that prayer being led by the company’s staff is downright unethical. Former dancer Summer Smith, who appeared on the podcast “Was I in a Cult?” to talk about her experience, says that staff would often use confessions that dancers made in the sanctity of these prayer circles later in rehearsals to “motivate” them. She also says that dancers who were having or believed to be having premarital sex would be pressured out of the company.

These are just the start of the allegations against 5:8. An anonymous dancer posting on the Reddit community r/ex58, talks about how professional trainees were often belittled by being forced to do pre-pointe exercises like those that would be given to children half their age. She even forced them to take class with actual children a few times. Trainees or recent hires were also forced to play the least desirable roles in productions (not uncommon), which, since all their ballets are based on Bible stories, meant they always play slaves (wtf).

Stories by Smith include dancers being underpaid/having to work other part time jobs while having a full rehearsal schedule, being forced to dance through injuries (making them take much longer to heal), and dancers generally being told to pray their problems away. The part that makes this cult-like is how the company exerts control over dancers by telling them that the rest of the dance world is corrupt, and that by staging ballets based on Bible tales, they were going to inspire the masses to become saved. Many of these accounts attribute the company’s toxic culture and cult-like religious tendencies mainly to one person, the company’s founder Julianna Slager.

Julianna Rubio Slager

Slager was a former trainee at the US’s first Christian ballet company, Ballet Magnificat. According to Summer Smith, Slager had never been a full time professional dancer before moving to Chicago for her pastor husband’s career. In this new city she decided to start her own ballet company, with ~~blackjack~~ Jesus and ~~hookers~~ lots of yelling.

Former 5:8 employees say that Slager is extremely mercurial. Everyone at the company works around her temper, even though one can never be sure what exactly will incur her ire. If a dancer angered her in any way, they would be replaced in productions, ignored in rehearsals, or even fired without warning. According to Smith and another anonymous source, Slager would ignore or even promote eating disorders, an already rampant problem in ballet made worse by the anxiety of being verbally abused. She would act wildly different based on who she was talking to and what she wanted to get out of them.

All of this created a culture of anxiety within the company that seems to persists today. Slager is still the head of Ballet 5:8 as of writing. Even if she were by some miracle (no religion joke intended) to step down, the company she has cultivated is used to running on aggression and fear. The only way to change this would be a complete overhaul of staff and procedures, which would require someone in power to make that decision. And Slager is determined to be the only one in power here.

Ongoing Conclusion

Ballet 5:8 doesn’t seem to be doing that well. If you go to their Jobs & Auditions page you’ll notice there are a lot of positions posted, including for summer internships that should have been filled by May/June. Job turnover has been very high at 5:8 for years. A former staff member says that the Marketing/Advertising role they worked in had been filled by multiple people over the course of a year because no one wanted to stay with the company for very long. They only managed to stick it out for 4 months, and in that time developed what sounds to my untrained ear like an anxiety disorder.

In addition to this high job turnover, there are rumors of an either partial or complete resignation of board members. Prior to the release of the episode of “Was I in a Cult?” Ballet 5:8’s board was posted publicly on the website. The page has since been removed, and there are currently listings on the job page for board members. Supposedly this is also a recurring issue for the company (there was allegedly a complete board walkout in the past).

Ballet 5:8 has proven to be incredibly conscious of their public image in the past. According to at least one parent testimony, they personally call people who leave them bad reviews online to cajole them into taking them down. This is part of why I made that disclaimer at the top, along with not wanting to get the dancers telling their stories in any more hot water.

If you look up Ballet 5:8 articles, most of what you’ll find is glowing praise of their upcoming shows from local Chicago papers. There has been no journalistic coverage of the allegations of former dancers outside of Reddit and that one podcast episode. So, despite the apparently dire conditions inside of the company, few people outside are hearing anything about it.

I didn’t make this post to bash on Christians inherently, or even the concept of a Christian ballet company. It might not be my cup of tea, but it takes all sorts to make the world go round. However, Ballet 5:8 is at best a bad example of what this kind of company could be, and at worst, an abusive cult. The reason I made this post is to hopefully spread awareness. Even if you just killed 10 mins taking this all in and never think about any of this again, thank you for reading.

Additional Reading

As I said at the beginning, most of my information from this post is sourced from a podcast episode and various Reddit posts. I’ve linked the Reddit posts as they came up, but the podcast is called “Was I in a Cult?” and the specific episode “Pray then Plié.” Quite honestly I found the hosts annoying and their attempts at jo...

---

Content cut off. Read original on https://old.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/1ey44ie/ballet_chicagos_christian_ballet_cult_ballet_58/

This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.

The original was posted on /r/hobbydrama by /u/EnclavedMicrostate on 2024-08-19 04:02:30+00:00.

---

Welcome back to Hobby Scuffles!

Please read the Hobby Scuffles guidelines here before posting!

As always, this thread is for discussing breaking drama in your hobbies, offtopic drama (Celebrity/Youtuber drama etc.), hobby talk and more.

Reminders:

• Don’t be vague, and include context.
• Define any acronyms.
• Link and archive any sources.
• Ctrl+F or use an offsite search to see if someone's posted about the topic already.
• Keep discussions civil. This post is monitored by your mod team.

Certain topics are banned from discussion to pre-empt unnecessary toxicity. The list can be found here. Please check that your post complies with these requirements before submitting!

Previous Scuffles can be found here

This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.

The original was posted on /r/hobbydrama by /u/EvilCatboyWizard on 2024-08-18 22:52:44+00:00.

---

FAIR WARNING! Be advised that this community is about a presidential election game which, while it mostly falls under the purview of history, is impossible to entirely divorce from actual politics, especially given the actions of the people involved. Read at your own peril if you wish you avoid such a thing.

What is NCT?

The New Campaign Trail, or NCT, is a browser game with a cult following among history nerds of all types.

It's the continuation of the original game, simply "The Campaign Trail", created by one Dan Bryan.

A relatively simple game at its core, NCT has you take the role of a presidential candidate from one of the United States of America's many elections and try to steer them to victory, through answering policy questions and selecting which states to personally visit.

Many of America's most noteworthy elections are present in the game, From Abraham Lincoln's ascension to the big chair in 1860, to the first sparks of what would blossom into the Progressive Era in 1896, the heavily divisive election claimed by many to have been wrongfully stolen in 2000, and even as recently as the presidential election of 2020.

Perhaps one of the game's biggest claims to fame, however, is its robust and active modding community.

The modding community...

Indeed, modding The Campaign Trail is, doubtlessly, the primary reason it has the following it does. Talented modders have created all sorts of new experiences, from adding in historical scenarios not in the base game like the elections of 1920, 1796, and 1872, to adding elections of entirely separate countries, like a pair of mods chronicling the 2017 and 2024 general elections in the United Kingdom, or the 2021 German election.

Beyond just the historical elections, however, I would argue and many would agree that the main draw of the NCT modding community are the unique and fascinating alternate history scenarios that people concoct.

What if Howard Dean won the Democratic presidential nomination in 2004?

What if LBJ was framed for orchestrating the Kennedy assassination?

What if the first American Revolution had failed?

These scenarios provide completely fresh, new takes on how History happened, and are often some of the most innovative mods in the way they stretch the game's mechanics to their absolute limit.

...And the rest of us.

I'd like to take a brief moment to shine a light on the character of the REST of the NCT community.

It is noteworthy how, despite what you may stereotype about this many American history nerds all gathered in one place, the Campaign Trail community is actually rather left-leaning overall, and surprisingly diverse. This surprisingly open culture will have notable ramifications later down the line...

But, for now, without further ado,

Time is a flat circle... or a line.

As the coding got more and more ambitious in alternate history mods, so too did the scope of their stories. Eventually, the NCT community gave rise to organized timelines, where multiple mods would be made focusing on an alternative timeline past one point of divergence.

The earliest, to my knowledge, example of such a project is a timeline known as "Bryanverse". This timeline followed a PoD where Theodore Roosevelt won the Republican nomination in 1912, and runs against three-time Democratic candidate William Jennings Bryan in 1916 after taking America fully into the great war ahead of schedule, leading to a Bryan victory (Hence the name). The timeline then has two more mods following Bryan's rocky term being brought to an end by Republican Leonard Wood in 1920, then an alternate 1924 where Wood easily dispatches racist firebrand James A. Reed.

The Bryanverse is a classic of the NCT fandom, and while it is not the most technically advanced by the standards of what people pull off nowadays, but it is nonetheless an all-time classic and provides the gold standard of a well-put-together timeline.

Now, this should be enough background for the community at large to get into...

Red and Butter

Enter: 1948 Red. Red follows a point of divergence that sees noted progressive firebrand and nowadays obscure vice president Henry Wallace never be replaced by Harry Truman, and thus ascend to the presidency in the aftermath of Franklin Roosevelt's death. (Notably, this mod happened to release at the same time as another mod with almost the exact same premise but different candidates and its OWN controversies, "1948 Identity War".)

His opponent, IRL future perennial candidate Harold Stassen, would lead the charge and ride a wave of economic dissatisfaction and anti-communist fervor to the white house and establish a streak of Republican dominance.

It's here we get introduced to the face of the series, one NCT modder known as "Captain Tom".

Tom was the project lead for the red series, and its public face on reddit and discord as well. He was also a prolific modder by himself, releasing individual mods and working with other faces of the NCT modding community in collab projects.

This mattered especially when Red decided to do a rather ambitious project to decide the direction of the series: A primary where YOU got to vote for the next candidate!

The 1952 convention went off relatively hitchless, and to somewhat surprising results given r/thecampaigntrail's political leanings, and that of Reddit at large.

Dark Horse progressive-but-not-too-progressive obscure governor of Arkansas Sid McMath won the day, and carried the Democratic banner in the next Red mod: 1952

...He canonically lost, surprising very few, but set the seeds for the future of the series.

Code Red

This next section delves greatly into historical inaccuracy, so feel free to skip to the next chapter of the post if you don't care for such things. Don't worry, we'll still be friends.

Now, it's at this point in the timeline that some of the biases begin to show, albiet a lot of it is in hindsight. The first of these crop up in the 1948 mod, where Henry Wallace is portrayed unfairly in some regards and assigned unfair positions, such as ordering a land invasion of Japan instead of using the nuclear bomb, only to use it later anyway on communist China.

While Red portrays some failures of Stassen's presidency very noticeably, such as his plan to construct low-income housing flopping and the fact his anti-communism leads to the arrest of Helen Keller before he pardons her, it at the same time gives greater credit than deserved to his foreign policy, such as dramatically negotiating a partition of China into two, something both sides would find unacceptable.

The 1956 iteration of the Democratic convention went differently than the previous one: Whereas 1952 had been held solely through polls on reddit, the 1956 iteration would incorporate the discord server! Prospective delegates were able to join up and roleplay as a member of one particular candidate's camp, making backroom deals and fighting to get their guy to the top. And in the end, the winner was congressman John McCormack, yet another dark horse liberal, though with a significantly more establishment tinge.

His republican opponent, now that Harold Stassen was termed out?

...Joe. McCarthy. The infamous anti-communist crusader.

Potentially an interesting history, bizarre that it'd happen, but with potential.

...and then he won.

John McCormack had been paraded as the most milquetoast liberal candidate whom could easily ride to victory in a year that massively favored the democrats against one of the most unpopular candidates that could have been run.

The reasons given for his loss were seen by many as horribly contrived, to boot, such as sending his Texan running mate to campaign in Illinois, and generally acting very egotistical and out of character for the wizened elder statesman he was seen as in real life. This is where the accusations of Red being a conservative circlejerk of a series really started coming out in full force, and it would only get worse.

But the next problems come not from within the mods themselves, but from the community interactions outside of them...

Conventional Problems

The 1960 Red Democratic convention was set to dwarf them all. Now, the convention would be held entirely on discord. There would be no reddit polls. With more players than any previous convention, people flooded in to take on the roles of DNC delegates to the various candidates, voting on discord as the candidates were eliminated one-by-one.

In addition, Tom controlled NPC delegates he would distribute to different camps to reflect how things such as campaigning and debate performances went.

The three candidates that matter for this, however, are the finalists: ...

---

Content cut off. Read original on https://old.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/1evmfus/the_new_campaign_trail_better_red_than_dead_the/

This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.

The original was posted on /r/hobbydrama by /u/EnclavedMicrostate on 2024-08-12 04:02:12+00:00.

---

Welcome back to Hobby Scuffles!

Please read the Hobby Scuffles guidelines here before posting!

As always, this thread is for discussing breaking drama in your hobbies, offtopic drama (Celebrity/Youtuber drama etc.), hobby talk and more.

Reminders:

• Don’t be vague, and include context.
• Define any acronyms.
• Link and archive any sources.
• Ctrl+F or use an offsite search to see if someone's posted about the topic already.
• Keep discussions civil. This post is monitored by your mod team.

Certain topics are banned from discussion to pre-empt unnecessary toxicity. The list can be found here. Please check that your post complies with these requirements before submitting!

Previous Scuffles can be found here

This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.

The original was posted on /r/hobbydrama by /u/avematerlibertas on 2024-08-09 20:39:06+00:00.

---

Hello there, ~r/HobbyDrama~!

It’s been some time since my last post, and while I’m still researching for the part 2 of the Smilinguido write-up, I came across a variety of religious comic books which I thought would be interesting to do a write-up on.

This post will be shorter than my previous one; however I do believe it presents an interesting perspective on the Muslim Arab diaspora in Brazil, as well as showing the differing approaches that the religion may have towards children’s media.

All the comics are fortunately available online for free, and I’ll link them at the bibliography section. As always, most of the sources will be in Portuguese, although it’s worth checking them out for further information and details.

I PROMISE TO RECEIVE YOU WITH OPEN ARMS: A (VERY) BRIEF HISTORY OF THE ARAB DIASPORA IN BRAZIL

Few people, outside of Brazil and the Arab countries, know about the deep ties between the South American giant and the Middle East. Brazil is home to the largest Syrian and Lebanese Diasporas in the world, and harbours international ties with the Levant since imperial times.

One could argue that the majority of Arab immigrants that came to Brazil, since the 1880s, did so under the auspices of Emperor Dom Pedro II, a great admirer of Semitic cultures and language enthusiast. Dom Pedro II had personally travelled through Syria and Lebanon during his diplomatic world tour, and became fascinated by the region and its inhabitants.

Most of the first wave of Arab immigrants was comprised of Christians from the Levant, fleeing Ottoman persecution and economic instability. The immigrants of the first wave would prosper and socially ascend while working as traders and peddlers, establishing their communities in urban areas. They would mainly settle in the Southern and South-eastern states (Rio de Janeiro, São Paulo, Paraná), in large metropolitan centres.

The earnings of the Arab traders would kick-start their companies, markets and stores, and they would prosper during WW1, by filling the supplies void left by a ruined, recovering Europe. The Syrian-Lebanese diaspora would be an important investor in the early Brazilian industrial economy, and would use their growing wealth to fund education, healthcare and social welfare aiming the Arab community.

The economic prosperity, social mobility and network of well-funded institutions were primarily enjoyed by the larger, Arab-Christian immigrants. Only in the interwar period would the diaspora’s Muslim minority have enough funds to build their first mosques and establish charitable institutions. The oldest mosque on record is the Mesquita Brasil, in São Paulo, maintained by the Sociedade Beneficente Muçulmana (Muslim Charitable Society) and erected between 1942 and 1952. Before WW2, this mosque served all Muslims, regardless of sectarian disputes and doctrinal differences, as it was the only available place of worship for the small community of faith.

After the Second World War, Brazil saw a larger influx of Arab Muslim immigrants, fleeing their homeland due to economic strife, regional conflicts and civil wars. Such demographic growth would cause the spread and sectarian divisions in the Arab Muslim communities, propelling the need for new mosques, organizations, and Sunni-Shia divided worship places.

The current Brazilian Islamic institutions flourished both as religious entities and cultural communities. They function as institutions dedicated to teaching and promoting religious values, as much as coordinating sport activities, camping, religious conferences, and much more.

Before we move on, it’s crucial to mention that Brazil had a Muslim community before the official immigration permits ceded during the Imperial period. Many enslaved East Africans where practicing Muslims, and were part of one of the most important slave revolts in the Americas (we’ll see more about this as we discuss the comics further).

YOU ENCOURAGE GOOD, FORBID EVIL: FAMBRAS AND MUSLIM CHARITABLE SOCIETIES IN BRAZIL

Many Muslim associations began as autonomous, independent efforts from the various immigrant communities established throughout the Brazilian territory. In 1979, arose the initiative to create a unified federation, amongst the most prominent Muslim leadership, in order to better coordinate cultural and religious activities.

As such, they gathered in Brasília and elected the Lebanese-Brazilian Hajj Hussein El Zoghbi as the first president of the Federação das Associações Muçulmanas do Brasil aka. FAMBRAS (Federation of Muslim Associations of Brazil). The federation received support from various Arab embassies, the Muslim World League and Awqaf ministries from abroad.

Ever since, FAMBRAS has sponsored the construction of new mosques and the establishment of prayer rooms, as well as promoting a growth in the production of Brazilian halal products, aiming the international market.

FAMBRAS is also responsible for many charitable works, targeting both the Brazilian Muslim community, and the impoverished from the wider non-Muslim Brazilian population. Such humanitarian efforts include water treatment, social assistance, health checks and examinations, food banks, academic endowments and scholarships, and free iftars during Ramadan.

Most importantly, for this post, is their work promoting general knowledge about Islam.  Dissemination methods include the distribution of free books and religious texts, participation in international book fairs, lectures, seminars, and (YES!) free children’s comics.

AND HE TOOK HIM AS A FRIEND: KHALIL, THE FIRST MUSLIM COMICS IN BRAZIL

So, who (or what is) Khalil? According to FAMBRAS, Khalil is a comic’s series aiming children and young readers, as a mean of confronting Islamophobia and promoting a message of peace and coexistence. The materials use a simple and charismatic language, so as to foster reading habits in children and being used as an auxiliary educational tool.

Its objectives are similar, in some ways, to the ones professed by the Arvicris era Smilinguido. Instead of taking an explicitly proselytizing perspective, Khalil rather focuses on values and civil attitudes (based on Muslim practice) that benefit the wider Brazilian society.

It presents intersectional healthy perspectives on ecology, food waste, and social issues concerning religious prejudice and xenophobia. As such, by presenting positive values and actions promoted by the faith, Khalil aims to present to the Brazilian younger readers an alternative, rather than letting their perspective of Islam be solely shaped by the hegemonic, Western prevailing prejudices.

The first edition was issued for the occasion of the 25th Bienal do Livro de São Paulo, in 2018, one of the most important publication events in the country, and was distributed for free (some news articles say that they had to limit distribution due to the comic’ popularity).

 The script is authored by Rogério Mascarenhas (aka. Romahs), cartoon artist who previously worked for the ever present Mauricio de Sousa Produções, with art provided by the Moroccan artist Malika Dahil Aguiar and colors by Eunuquis Aguiar.

BE COMPANIONS WITH THEM: KHALIL AND FRIENDS (AND SOME DIFFICULT REALITIES)

Finally, what is Khalil all about? Khalil, the namesake protagonist, is a Muslim Brazilian middle-schooler, easily spotted by his red hair and outgoing disposition. He loves to play with his friends, and is open about his a religious practices.

Khalil is an interesting character. Much like Smilinguido, Khalil portrays in a somewhat honest tone the struggles and feelings one might have when facing prejudice from peers, confronting wrong-doing and trying to explain your cultural differences and practices to a largely unfamiliar, and at  times hostile, society.

Khalil #1: Respect the differences (2018). In the first edition, Khalil is playing football (the kicking type, not the American one) with his friends, but is mocked when he fares better than the rival team. The other team members decide to taunt him, calling him a terrorist.. Khalil only finds solace with Cacá, an Afro-Brazilian girl who empathizes with him, finding solidarity in the prejudice both face sometimes.

The conflict is solved when one of Khalil’s bullies, Jucão, attempts to taunt the boy once more, and accidentally kicks the ball into the neighbourhood’s haunted house.  Khalil, in a display of courage, enters with Cacá to rescue the object. Jucão, trying not to look like a coward, rushes inside the abandoned building. He, however, gets scared, falls through the damaged wooden floor, hanging by a thread, only to be saved by Khalil and Cacá.

All in all, Khalil makes a new friend and confronts Islamophobia by being a kid acting with genuine intent and doing good deeds, influenced by his Muslim upbringing.

Even though this first edition was supposed to be a one-shot publication, its popularity and wide distribution in book fairs and educational events demanded more comics, concerning relevant themes for the young audience.

Khalil #2: Fighting religious intolerance (2019). The second edition, produced due to the successf...

---

Content cut off. Read original on https://old.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/1eoacca/comics_with_wisdom_and_kind_advice_khalil_the/

This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.

The original was posted on /r/hobbydrama by /u/ToErrDivine on 2024-08-09 02:20:31+00:00.

---

Hi, everyone, welcome to the final part (for now) of the Drake-Kendrick writeup. Previous instalments can be found here, here, here, here and here.

...you know, I really think I talk too much.

Act Nine: The ‘Not Like Us’ Video, or ‘How Kendrick Lamar Metaphorically Punched Me In The Face And Stole My Lunch Money’

(Why, yes, I am being incredibly petty about this. Thank you for noticing.)

On the morning of July 5, I woke up, got up, and started to edit the first part of this series so I could post it. About an hour into this process, I idly checked Reddit and discovered that Kendrick had dropped the video for ‘Not Like Us’ something like 45 minutes ago.

I was not pleased.

What I wanted to do was walk outside my house, lift my face to the sky and scream ‘LAMAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!!!!!’ in the manner of old films. I did not do this, because I would have then had to explain why I did this to a number of people who wouldn’t have had a fucking clue what I was talking about. (I did it in the Scuffles.) Instead, I opted to ask the mods if I was able to post or not, which was a no. However, over a week later, one of the mods said I could post the first parts, so it was a moot point in the end.

Anyway, here is a synopsis of the video for ‘Not Like Us’, which I will follow with a list of meanings that I have seen suggested regarding various parts of the video. This is not going to be looking at the most minor details; it will simply look at the more obvious stuff.

The video begins with a shot of the Compton City Hall and Civic Centre. We then cut to inside the City Hall (presumably- it’s not like I’ve ever been there), where Kendrick makes his way down a corridor with flickering lights. It’s in black and white, and Kendrick is rapping an unreleased song that a lot of people believe is a teaser for a new album.

We abruptly cut to a door with a slot in it, now in colour: Kendrick knocks on the door in the ‘shave and a haircut’ cadence, and the slot is opened to reveal Tommy the Clown, who asks for the password. Kendrick gives the password, which is the song’s opening line, ‘I see dead people’, and is allowed in, though Tommy chides him for being late after walking to his audio setup. Tommy blows a whistle and starts playing the song, and we see Kendrick seated among two rows of people- Tommy’s crew, the Hip Hop Clowns.

One of the Clowns dances while the others sway in time, and Kendrick raps the first verse, with occasional cuts to him dancing in a corner or leaning against a wall. (The room is also entirely silver with reflective walls- IDK what the hell it is in real life, or if Kendrick had it built for the video.) When the song gets to the line ‘Beat your ass and hide the Bible if God watchin’, one of the Clowns passes Kendrick a Bible, which he conceals.

Cut to… somewhere. It’s black and white again; Kendrick is standing quietly while another guy wearing a Compton cap dances behind him. I can barely make anything about the other guy out and I can’t see his face, so if anyone knows who that is, please tell me. A disguised person who looks like Drake on the cover of Dark Lane Demo Tapes approaches Kendrick from behind, but is blown away almost theatrically. (I kind of expected a Wilhelm Scream.) We get a few seconds of the other guy dancing, and then we cut to a room that looks like a prison cell- blank white walls and a bare single bed- but has speakers and a painting turned to the wall in it.

Kendrick does seventeen push-ups on cinderblocks, and the screen splits in two- the top screen shows Kendrick doing the push-ups, and the bottom has Kendrick sitting on the mattress and rapping. (u/lemonack told me that what I thought was a paint scraper in Kendrick's hair is actually 'an afro comb/hair pick. They're used for styling but are also worn as hair ornaments (sometimes to signify allegiance to Black Power political movements or general pride in being Black)'.) Having completed his push-ups, Kendrick gets up, but does one more for good measure. The video shows Kendrick in the possible-cell rapping until after ‘Certified Lover Boy*? Certified pedophile*’.

At the ‘WOP WOP WOP’ part, we cut to Kendrick beating up a pinata that looks like an owl with a stick, with the ‘No OVHOES’ disclaimer below it- one shot for each strike. (Kevin Dunn would be proud.) He breaks the pinata, a mass of… stuff? Not sure, really… falling out of it, and then we cut to Kendrick in what I’m guessing is a parking lot somewhere. He raps until the ‘A-Minor’ part, a crowd of people yelling the song along with him, and then crip-walks along a hopscotch court.

We cut to a crowd of Comptonites at the Martin Luther King Jr memorial chanting the chorus, and then to Kendrick and Mustard driving through Compton in a Ferrari. They stop at iconic burger joint Tam’s Burgers #21 to get food, and Kendrick’s dancer Storm DeBarge dances along. We then get alternating cuts of the burger place, Kendrick rapping as he walks past a line of Comptonites, some people on bikes, and Kendrick and Mustard driving around.

We then get shots of a shipping yard somewhere, as Kendrick is joined by Dave Free and DeMar DeRozan. (Since we’ve got the Toronto connection with DeRozan, one should note that Mustard is wearing a Toronto Blue Jays cap in the video.) Dancers Kida the Great and Taiwan Williams are seen dancing in one of the shipping containers, and Kendrick appears, looking very sharp in a grey suit. We get alternating shots of Kendrick rapping, Kendrick dancing and Kida and Taiwan dancing, and then we cut back to the crowd of Comptonites.

The camera zooms in enough that we can see Kendrick in the crowd, and then cuts to Kendrick’s choreographer, Charm La’Donna, walking uncertainly and then dancing along a tightrope. We then see Kendrick at what Wikipedia tells me is Nickerson Gardens, a public housing complex in Watts, LA. He’s there with a group of people including his Black Hippy friends Jay Rock, Schoolboy Q and Ab-Soul, and TDE’s executives Anthony Tiffith, Terrence Henderson, and Anthony Tiffith Jr. (I may have missed someone; if I have, sorry.) The camera cuts between panning along the line of guys and the group hanging out and partying with a bunch of other people who I assume are residents of Watts.

Back at the mirror room, Kendrick and the Hip Hop Clowns dance under Tommy’s direction, and then we cut to a living room somewhere. In black and white, we see Kendrick and Whitney Alford standing together; the camera zooms out and shows their children standing in front of them. We then see the four of them dancing and playing in the apartment, and it’s freaking adorable. We cut back to Kendrick walking past the line of Comptonites, and then to the crowd of Comptonites, who are chanting along with the ‘Freaky-ass nigga’ part.

We then cut briefly back to Nickerson Gardens, then to Kendrick at the shipping yard, then to the crowd of Comptonites, and then we get more shots from the line of people, the mirror room, the crowd, and then a group of women dancing at the Martin Luther King Jr memorial.

Finally, we see Kendrick staring at a barn owl, his expression borderline contemptuous. They stare at each other for a few seconds, and then the camera cuts to Kendrick walking away, revealing that the owl is locked in a cage. It follows Kendrick’s movements with an almost defensive posture, and then stares into the camera.

The song is over, but the video then cuts to the crowd of Comptonites, who are singing the end of the song. The camera pulls back, zooms in to show Kendrick in the crowd and then zooms out again. We cut to the words ‘Directed by Dave Free and Kendrick Lamar’ as the crowd cheers, and the words ‘NOT LIKE US’ appear as someone- presumably Free- asks the crowd if they’re ready to do it again and gets a rapturous response.

That’s the video. Here’s a list of implied meanings/interpretations that I’ve seen.

1: The recurring shots of Compton- the City Hall, the Martin Luther King Jr memorial, the iconic burger joint, Kendrick and Mustard driving around the city- and the crowd of locals are intended to show A, that Kendrick has extremely strong ties to his city despite not living there anymore, and B, Kendrick has the wholehearted blessing and support of Compton’s people.

2: Many of the Hip-Hop Clowns are wearing white clothes with ‘Not Like Us’ written in red and blue, and several of them...

---

Content cut off. Read original on https://old.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/1eno9z7/raphiphop_the_drakekendrick_lamar_feud_act_nine/

This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.

The original was posted on /r/hobbydrama by /u/Upbeat_Ruin on 2024-08-06 14:46:36+00:00.

---

Hi! I had this topic on file for a couple weeks. On my previous post about the Miniverse recall, a person mentioned the wave of recalls that happened in 2007 and expressed interest in a write-up. I said, I have one waiting in the wings, so why not? Here you go.

CW: There is a brief mention of a suicide in paragraph 18, the second-to-last in the write-up.

Do you think that centuries from now, when explorers are excavating the ruins of US suburbia, they'll unearth countless artifacts and become fascinated with a certain three-word phrase that can be found on almost all of them? With the English language lost to time or rendered unrecognizable from centuries of linguistic evolution, will they think “Made in China” is an incantation for good luck? A prayer to ward off wayward spirits? A tribute to the ruler?

Who knows, but for us, we've come to associate that phrase with cheaply made products of varying quality. To be fair, there are plenty of reputable factories in China (LEGO has one, for example. And we know they're no slouch with product quality.) The reputation is hard to shake off, though. That being said, most of the time, we don't associate “Made in China” stamped on our stuff with imminent danger.

But in 2007, that was the case. Anno-Domini 2007 was the Year of the Pig in the lunar zodiac officially, but to the public, it was the Year of the Recall.

Toys weren't the only type of goods that got yanked from the shelves in the panic. Pet food was also affected, after tragic consequences. Toothpaste, tires, and cosmetics got axed as well. But we'd be here all day if I went over everything. For this write-up, the focus on is on toys, since that seems to be my bread and butter with Hobby Drama posts.

The most common reason for toy recalls in 2007 was violation of federal standards on lead content. Lead (Pb 82) is a toxic heavy metal, with similar properties to its periodic neighbors thallium, cadmium, and mercury. Acute lead toxicity can be fatal. Even low doses are dangerous, with numerous short- and long-term effects. Among other things, lead accumulates in the bones and leaches into the bloodstream over time. It can bypass the blood-brain barrier to degrade neurons and inhibit neurotransmitters. You don't have to be popping it in your mouth to be exposed, either; lead in dust form from stripped paint or leaded gasoline fumes is just as toxic. Long-term lead exposure has been linked to aggression, impulsivity, inclinations to violence, and other anti-social behaviors. Sociologists have even suggested a link between excessive lead exposure and crime, with a hypothesis that violent crime rates dropped dramatically in the 90s partially due to federal bans on leaded gasoline and paint.

(Side note: pencil “lead” is actually graphite, a harmless form of carbon. It hasn't been made of real lead in decades. You're okay if you chewed on your pencils as a kid. I mean, who didn't?)

So why on earth was this very dangerous material being put in children's toys? The answer, like with most heinous situations, is money. Lead is dirt cheap. Pun intended, since it's so plentiful you probably would find some in your backyard dirt. When added to paint, it brightens the pigment, making it useful for colors like yellow, red, and white. Anyone who's had to paint a large area those colors knows how annoying it can be to get good coverage. Lots of layers, like an onion. Lead additives also help paint dry faster and resist moisture. Too bad it flakes over time and sloughs off toxic paint chips. For unscrupulous companies looking to make as many products as cheaply as possible, slipping a little of that ol' atomic number 82 in the paint to stretch it starts to look appealing.

Here's a run-down on items that were recalled for lead violations. To stay on-topic and keep the post from getting too long, I'm not going to discuss every toy that got pulled. Not all the recalled toys in 2007 were affected because of toxicity; a significant number of them had to be pulled because of issues with small parts or magnets coming loose. One magnet swallowed by a child is not acutely dangerous, but two or more can be deadly. They can attach to each other within the digestive system, possibly tearing the stomach or intestines.

Children's jewelry was recalled in droves in 2007. Why, oh why, would companies put lead into a product that rests on children's skin and is often put in their mouths? Well, like I said before, lead is cheap. It also melts at a much lower temperature (449 F) than metals such as steel (2500 F), making it easier to cast. While going through the 12-page list of lead-related recalls from 2007 on the CPSC website, I found a whopping 30 entries for children's jewelry that exceeded legal limits (albeit some were expansions to previous recalls), from a variety of companies such as Cardinal, Rhode Island Novelty, Claire's, and Limited Too. Clearly, there were dangerous levels of cost-cutting going on here. It's so bad that on the CPSC's page for downloading posters, their one about thrift store safety recommends not selling or buying metal children's jewelry at all.

RC2 Corporation had to pull knight figures and wooden Thomas and Friends train sets because of lead surface paint. I wanted to point out this one in particular because it's partially responsible for Tamara Rubin's Lead-Safe Mama movement existing. After her sons were sickened by lead poisoning in 2005, she became militant about protecting them, only for the tainted trains to sneak into her home anyway. So that's what set her on the crusade to end childhood lead poisoning.

RC2 also recalled a Winnie the Pooh training potty for babies, due to lead paint in the orange decorative plate that inserted into the back. However, the remedy for that recall was not for consumers to return the potty to the store; instead, they were issued a permanent plastic cover to place over the offending plate. Okay, sure.

Mattel was hit particularly hard by the recalls, as a consequence of being such a juggernaut within the toy industry. Millions of items exported from their Chinese factories were pulled, including but not limited to: Barbie accessory sets, Sesame Street figures, Dora the Explorer and Diego playsets, diecast models of the character “Sarge” from Cars (as far as I can tell, no other characters ran afoul of lead paint regulations), and Fisher-Price toys. Mattel's stock share value dipped briefly as a result, although it recovered quickly. The owner of Barbie and Fisher-Price won't stay down for long, you know.

Other tainted items included wooden toys from Soldier Bear, a growth chart, children's sunglasses, holiday figures and ornaments, toy cars, fishing game sets, pencil pouches, snowglobes, confetti poppers, Curious George dolls, Halloween trick-or-treat buckets, kid's art supplies, spin tops, children's gardening tools, wagons, cake toppers, dollar store figures, baby doll furniture, bookmarks (???), key chains, balance beams...look, you get the picture. It was a lot of stuff that got recalled for lead paint violations. Going through the list, I was quite surprised at how many items can even end up with lead paint on them. It wasn't only cheap dollar store crap that got affected, either; even somewhat high-profile brands like Breyer had recalls that year.

A dishonorable mention goes to Bindeez (Aqua Dots in the US) - a type of aqua bead that bonded to themselves once sprayed with water. For once, it wasn't because of lead paint violations, but they made up for that by being toxic in other ways. Instead of the nontoxic plasticizer 1,5 pentanediol, Bindeez contained 1,4 butanediol. Butanediol metabolizes into gamma-hydroxybutyric acid (GHB) in the stomach. Yes, that GHB, the depressant drug GHB. Within the body, it induces the effects of an overdose such as seizure, coma, or even death. Once again, this was as a result of corner-cutting at the factory; the nontoxic plasticizer is three to five times more expensive than the toxic one.

It was a terrifying year to be a parent or caregiver. Buying children's products felt like playing Russian roulette – you could never guess what item from a brand you previously trusted could end up on the recall list.

As a result of the Year of the Recall, the US government started passing stricter regulations on toy safety and customs. Amy Klobuchar, senator of Minnesota at the time (and the time of this writing), stated that the horrifying situation indicated that the Consumer Product Safety Commission needed greater funding and authority. Then-president George W. Bush signed the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act of 2008 into law, after it passed unanimously in the House and 79-13 in the Senate. It imposed stricter limits for toxic substances in various household goods, with an emphasis on children's products. The lead limit was lowered from 600 ppm to 90 ppm (for surface) and 100 ppm (for substrate). Fines for violations were raised, and jail time could be prescribed for some violations. The law also put the power for recalls into the CPSC's hands directly, for their approval.

The law was not without its opponents, most of them being manufacturers who argued that its terms were too much and too soon. The CPSIA had given them only a year to comply with the new standards, a window they felt was much too small. To be fair, the timeline for product development can last months, unless you're Temu or Shein and you ...

---

Content cut off. Read original on https://old.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/1eljod5/toys_general_hell_on_the_import_boat_the_toy/

This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.

The original was posted on /r/hobbydrama by /u/EnclavedMicrostate on 2024-08-05 04:02:08+00:00.

---

Welcome back to Hobby Scuffles!

Please read the Hobby Scuffles guidelines here before posting!

As always, this thread is for discussing breaking drama in your hobbies, offtopic drama (Celebrity/Youtuber drama etc.), hobby talk and more.

Reminders:

• Don’t be vague, and include context.
• Define any acronyms.
• Link and archive any sources.
• Ctrl+F or use an offsite search to see if someone's posted about the topic already.
• Keep discussions civil. This post is monitored by your mod team.

Certain topics are banned from discussion to pre-empt unnecessary toxicity. The list can be found here. Please check that your post complies with these requirements before submitting!

Previous Scuffles can be found here

This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.

The original was posted on /r/hobbydrama by /u/Baconator981 on 2024-08-05 02:53:05+00:00.

---

Part 1: Ultimate Frisbee

As the name suggests, Ultimate Frisbee is a sport that involves throwing a frisbee. Teams must work the frisbee down the field by throwing and catching only, no moving with disc is allowed. Any time the frisbee touches the ground it is a turnover. The sport borrows significant terminology from sports such as basketball, American Football and tennis. What makes the sport unique however, is its almost entirely self-officiated nature a concept known as the Spirit of the Game.

The two concepts work hand in hand. Almost every game of ultimate is played with no 3rd party referees or other officials to make calls. Instead, players are empowered to make their own calls regarding fouls, whether a player caught the disc, and whether a player is in or out of the end zone, or the field. Calls are then discussed, ending with the player who made the call retracting it, the player adjudged to have fouled another accepts the foul, or the players agree to disagree, contest the call and play resumes as basically a do-over. This is where Spirit of Game comes in. Players are expected to engage with these discussions in good faith and do their best to be as honest as possible. Obviously this is a very exploitable which led to the introduction of some 3rd party officials, who in North America are known as observers (International play uses a different system but this game happened in the US so I will be focusing on observers). A full history of observers and spirit of the game in general can be found here.

Observers are meant to provide a balance between Spirit of the Game and fair play at the highest level, as importantly to this day the vast majority of games are played without observers. Where observers are different than referees is that they can only make a few calls by themselves, offsides (when a player is over the end zone line before a disc is thrown to start the point),in or out calls for both the end zone and field, and Team and Personal Misconduct foul for unspirited behavior or plays that are considered particularly dangeroys. Other than that observers can only make calls if one party involved in a foul call asks for their input, at which point their call is treated as binding like a referee's would.

Part Two: The Call

The all-important incident occurred in the 2023 USAU National Championships, a tournament that involves the best 16 club teams from around the USA and Canada and which is generally considered the most prestigious annual tournament in the world. Teams have to make it through sectional and regional tournaments to qualify. The game in question was a quarterfinal matchup between number 1 seeded DC Truckstop and number 6 Boston DiG. Despite being number 1 Truckstop had only gone 1-2 in their pool play round robin, forcing them to play through a pre-quarterfinal to reach a DiG team who had won their pool. The game, which can be viewed here in its entirety (behind an unfortunately expensive pay wall) went all the way to universe point, an ultimate term for double game point. Games of ultimate are played to 15, so the game has to end with a score. DiG would start with the disc on offense, giving them a massive advantage. DiG moved the frisbee down the field quickly resulting in a throw to #11 Peter Boerth. The disc however ended up in the hands of Truckstop #16 AJ Merriman. Boerth would call a particular kind of foul called a strip. Calling a strip means that a player believes they made the catch, only for the frisbee to be knocked out, or ripped out of their hands. Crucially, as Boerth was in the end zone when he made the call a strip call would result in a catch and a DiG win.

After a brief discussion, Merriman would go to an observer who would overturn the strip call, giving Truckstop posession. They would quickly move the disc down the field and score to win the game and move on. This picture from ultimate photographer/videographer NKolakovic would show the situation clearly. Boerth had caught the disc before Merriman touched it, and by rule it should have been a strip and a Dig victory. While this picture was available very quickly, and the fact that replays were available, USA Ultimate rules, the set of rules the game was being played under, do not allow for observers to use technology to see calls and so the call stood.

Part Three: Aftermath

This was a particularly deflating call. Unlike most situations were an early missed call could be worked back from, this call quite literally prevented DiG from winning the game. Trucktop would go on to win the National championship, their first ever and the first ever for the DC/Maryland/Virginia area in the open division. This was considered a tainted win of course and so the ultimate community was involved in intense discussion. Some suggested that Truckstop should have given up their place in the semi-finals, an idea that USA Ultimate soundly rejected for the precedent it would set. The role of the observers, as well as the use of technology were also reviewed. Observers are allowed to say they cannot make a call because they could not be confident of a ruling, and yet this safegaurd had not made an impact. The other major ruleset, that of the World Flying Disc Federation, does allow for technology reviews, but have game advisors who cannot make any calls except for offsides, who are only there to give their perspective and clarify rules misunderstandings. Even months after the event, players at my local pickup game were discussing the call

This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.

The original was posted on /r/hobbydrama by /u/AbraxasNowhere on 2024-08-02 16:12:04+00:00.

---

Content Warning: Mentions of Graphic Content (which will be redacted in quotations), Some R-Rated language

Writer’s note: Given the forum-centric nature of this story, links to archives of the original posts are limited. Most of these websites are defunct or in a state of disrepair and trying to navigate old forums on the Wayback Machine is spotty at best. Therefore I had to rely on recollections from people who were present (including my own) but I will post links to original pages and forum threads when I can.

2024 marks the 70th anniversary of the Godzilla franchise, and the King of the Monsters has never been, pun partially intended, bigger. A franchise once mocked for its man-in-rubber-suit special effects now receives Oscar recognition for its visuals. Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire stands as one of the highest grossing films of this year. Godzilla merchandise is more common than ever in Western markets. IDW’s comic series1 give love to the whole stable of Toho kaiju, not just Big G. Franchise crossovers abound; seeing the King of the Monsters tangle with the Power Rangers, the Justice League, Ultraman, and some weird ant game on mobile. Godzilla has more fans than ever, but in a time before Discord, reddit and open-for-all Facebook, a much smaller fandom existed in a network of fan-made websites and forums. This is the story of a flamewar that spilled out of one site and consumed three more and behind-the-scenes manipulation fueling the fire.

Part 1 - Countdown

Hey! What do you know about the old days? If you all keep thinking like that, you'll all become prey for Godzilla!

—Gojira (1954)

To understand this conflict, one must understand the state of the fandom circa 2005. It was not unlike any number of fandoms at the time. Aside from a small yearly convention, the community was mostly confined to a handful of online forums. It had much in common with anime communities given the Japanese origin, reliance on dubs of questionable quality, and rampant flamewars.

Godzilla films hadn’t received wide theatrical releases in Western markets since Godzilla 2000. The poor quality English dubs of the Toho Studios films that earned the genre much mockery were the only easily-available versions for fans to watch, though Sony’s DVD releases of Godzilla films in the USA were making the original Japanese audio tracks more accessible. I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention the standout video games Godzilla: Destroy All Monsters Melee and Godzilla: Save the Earth2.

Something else that is very important to know going into this story is the identities of Godzilla fansites were very much defined by their respective admins and moderators. The fandom was large enough to justify multiple popular communities, but not so large as to only need more than small teams of very visible staff. Their personalities radiated outward and set the ‘tone’, then G-Fans would flock accordingly to the communities they liked best. Fans didn’t just go to war for their franchise, they’d strike out to defend their favorite forums too.

Now is a good time to meet the belligerents of this conflict:

• Maser City: 99% Uncensored Kaiju Discussion. This Urban Dictionary definition puts it perfectly: “A now defunct Godzilla site and at the time mildly infamous message board that was run by a gang of mentally ill sociopaths who were never as smart as they thought they were.”3 The site was run by the supreme edgelord Project Pimp and was populated by people banned from other Godzilla forums. Look up archives of the forums at your own discretion, for reasons that will be elaborated on later.
• Tokyo Monsters: The Kaiju Eiga Multimedia Resource. Tokyo Monsters was the place to get your fix for kaiju photos and video, often presented in the famous Super Saturday Updates. The site posted news and reviews of media releases of kaiju films and kept a detailed catalog of which films were distributed by which companies. The admin James Ballard was a lifeline to Western fans through his frequent travels to Japan and insider connections at Toho Studios.
• GojiStomp: Godzilla Stomp. The Site. A typical fansite of the time with the expected movie reviews, kaiju profiles, photo galleries, and more. Their most notable feature was a collection of histories of individual suits used across the films along with arguably the best web and graphic design of any major Godzilla fansite of the time. The staff and members of GojiStomp had a longstanding enmity towards Maser City because of numerous trolling raids.
• Kaijuphile:  Monster Site. Monster Obsession. The forums of the beloved fansite Rodan’s Roost, known for its incredibly detailed profiles of kaiju abilities/personalities, while the forums were famous for their yearly community-voted kaiju battle tournament Daikaiju Desumacchi4, massive works of collaborative fanfiction, and the co-founders Morgoth and Sauron’s fiery hatred of the 1998 American Godzilla film5 and George Lucas6.

In 2004, the fandom braced itself for an upcoming drought of content. Toho Studios had consistently produced one Godzilla film every 1-3 years since the franchise revival in the 1984 film The Return of Godzilla (known in the west as Godzilla 1985), which initiated the Heisei Era of the franchise. A four-year gap followed after the Era’s conclusion in Godzilla vs. Destoroyah. That made way for the infamous 1998 Roland Emmerich film, which spurred Toho Studios to action to quickly initiate the Millenium Era with 1999’s Godzilla 2000. Four more films followed that slowly dipped in box office returns. 

After that, Toho made a bold decision: they would produce an anniversary film for the King’s 50th birthday in 2004 then the series would go on a ten year hiatus. That film was Godzilla: Final Wars; an over-the-top mess that crammed in 15 monsters (including the 1998 American Godzilla7), an alien invasion, and a puzzling The Matrix-meets-X-Men subplot. Western fans in the meantime were stuck with movie screenshots and spoilers from English-speaking fans in Japan, but hope would soon (seemingly) arrive in March of 2005. 

On March 17th, a member of the Maser City forums proclaimed they had a bootleg video file of Godzilla: Final Wars to share. The film had already made the rounds on BitTorrent, but this was the first high profile, public download link, or so it seemed. The video file itself was of horrendous quality and revealed itself as an obvious prank. No uploads are known to exist today but it was described as: 

The image is crap and stretched as well as only running about 20 minutes in length. The movie goes completely berserk when Rodan opens his wings in front of the moon. Cutting rapidly to a few other scenes, until finally you hear the manic laughing of the [Xillien] Controller.

Of course, hungry western fans weren’t about to let a likely troll post from a troll den rain on their parade. News of the download spread across the fandom, popping up on Tokyo Monsters, GojiStomp, and Kaijuphile. Tokyo Monsters admin James Ballard warned members to not post about this download out of concern that blame could fall on him and damage his connections within the Japanese media industry. It was a fandom sensation even as moderators and admins attempted to clamp down the spread of the file link.

Part 2 - Detonation

Let them fight.

—Godzilla (2014)

Consequences seemingly reared their head on March 21st as both Maser City and the bootleg link disappeared from the Internet. Most assumed Toho Studios caught wind of the file and issued a takedown notice to Maser City’s web host. Project Pimp took to the Tokyo Monsters forum to accuse James Ballard of tipping Toho off about the file download, a deeply personal betrayal since James helped set up Maser City’s forums. Pimp also claimed it was unfair for Maser City to be taken down for a prank post since he believed James was the original source of a real Final Wars video file circulating BitTorrent. Several denizens of the Maser City forums joined in to back Pimp up in the ensuing flamewar. In the end, James stepped in to clamp down the ho...

---

Content cut off. Read original on https://old.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/1eie25i/godzilla_the_final_wars_war_how_a_bootleg_video/

This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.

The original was posted on /r/hobbydrama by /u/ToErrDivine on 2024-08-02 05:24:54+00:00.

---

Hi, everyone, welcome back. Previous posts can be found here, here, here and here.

Act Eight: The Calm Before The Pop-Out

After the musical explosion that took place over the course of April 30 to May 5, the feud sat in an uneasy place somewhere between ‘done’ and ‘not done’. Sure, Kendrick had obviously won with ‘meet the grahams’ and ‘Not Like Us’, but that didn’t necessarily mean that he wouldn’t release anything else, after all. Given how the songs had been dropping one after the other, for the first few days after ‘The Heart Part 6’, people were constantly anticipating new tracks. And by ‘anticipating’, I mean ‘Can we come out from under the bed now, or are you suddenly going to tell us that Drake fucks horses’.

But as more and more time passed, people started to relax. Aside from ‘U My Everything’ coming out on May 24- and that was barely a blip on anyone’s radar- it seemed obvious that the feud was done. Yes, Drake had got the final word, but Kendrick had won; nobody disputed that except the hardcore Drake fans- and Drake deleting the IG post where he announced ‘The Heart Part 6’ seemed to confirm that. And the dust subsided, everyone took deep breaths, nothing happened for over a month, and a lot of people started wondering ‘So… wait, that’s it? No, no, no, that’s it?’

See, the thing about rap feuds is that they don’t generally get this extreme. Before you say anything, I’m not talking about the results- even aside from Biggie and Tupac, I mentioned before that Florida rapper Foolio was shot dead on June 23, 2024, and take a look at his feud to see how bloody that got. My point is, to the best of my knowledge, you didn’t generally see rappers accusing each other of stuff like child molestation. Most of the time you got stuff like ‘All your songs suck’ and ‘You’re the worst member of your crew and everyone else in it hates you’. (Unless at least one of the people involved happens to be female, in which case you then tend to see stuff like ‘You’re a slut’ and/or ‘You wouldn’t sleep with me’. *cough*the Roxanne Wars*cough*) If this had solely been a battle of bars where the worst that happened was that Drake called Kendrick a midget and Kendrick called Drake a pussy, nobody would have minded. We’d all have enjoyed it and then moved on.

But that isn’t what happened. Instead, we got Kendrick and Drake making serious allegations of very grave crimes. Kendrick called Drake a pedophile and child molester! Drake called Kendrick a domestic abuser! They both tried to do serious damage to the other guy’s family! Kendrick addressed every member of Drake’s immediate family and told them that Drake is a nonce and has another hidden child! Drake said that Kendrick’s fiancée cheated on him with his best friend and that Kendrick’s son isn’t his!

Most fans don’t want to support artists and creators who did shitty things. And here we are, with two rappers who’ve made grave accusations about the other having done really shitty things, but with no real proof on either side. What were we supposed to do, just shrug and go ‘Well, that was crazy, lmao’ and forget about it? Go back to listening to their music like nothing had happened?

You know what, I’m going to quote Todd in the Shadows on this one.

“Like, these things used to end with people dying, but... I don't know, this all leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Like, if either of these things are true, it changes my relationship with both of their music. And if nothing happens, then what the fuck was the point? What right does Drake have to lie on Kendrick's wife and/or out her as a victim when she didn't ask to be outed? What right do either of them have to act like they care about domestic abuse or sex crimes when they both worked with confirmed abusers?!”

*points to the third disclaimer again*

As time kept passing, it seemed like that was exactly what was going to happen: nothing. There was no truce called. Neither of them made any public statements about the feud. Neither of them made any public denials of the allegations against them. Neither of them released any evidence to support their claims. Nobody got arrested. The Embassy did not get raided. None of their family members made any public statements. Nobody came forward and alleged that Drake or Kendrick had abused them.

It left a lot of people, myself included, wondering what we were supposed to do now. After all, nothing had really changed for Kendrick, he’d just keep releasing albums and doing his thing. He isn’t a public person anyway- we have one photo of Kendrick that was taken throughout the entire feud, and it’s just a photo of him in the studio recording ‘meet the grahams’, it’s not like a public appearance or anything. But while Drake may have lost the battle, it doesn’t mean that he lost everything. Even if he takes a break from music for a while to let the furore die down, I’m prepared to bet that upon his return, whatever he releases will still be a success. And I’m also prepared to bet that if his next release turns out to be really good, people will be all too happy to forget about the allegations.

At the end of the day, Drake is still Drake. He’s a multi-millionaire with eight albums that have all been critical successes. He’s still got a hardcore fanbase who’ll keep listening to his music no matter what. Sure, he’s taken a huge hit to his reputation, but this is Drake, the guy who’s been fighting an uphill battle from the beginning, the guy who started out in the worst possible position- being a biracial Canadian former child actor from the suburbs - and managed to make it to the top of the American rap industry. If anyone can recover from this, it’s Drake, especially since he specialises in making music that’s mainstream and radio/club-friendly.

And unfortunately, as a lot of fans and victims learned after Me Too and Speaking Out, someone who’s been accused of sexual assault/harassment/etc can survive the allegations being thrown at them simply by keeping their head down for a while and then continuing on like nothing’s happened, no matter how credible the accusations are, or how clear the evidence is. (I speak from personal experience.) Sure, the fans can constantly talk about and bring up the allegations, but that’s all they can do- if the people with the power to actually do something about it decide that they’re going to keep someone who’s named as an abuser around, the fans are SOL unless they decide on something like a boycott, and even that can fail.

So, as time kept passing, it looked like the fans were going to have to just shrug and bear it. Even if fans had organised boycotts of Drake’s music or something along those lines, I don’t know how much that would have done. Drake is one of the founders and owners of OVO, and even if fans persuaded their distributors- Sony Music for OVO in general, and Republic Records for Drake specifically- to cut ties with them, are you really going to tell me that multi-millionaire Drake couldn’t come up with an alternative? And at the same time, this still all came down to a whole lot of accusations and not a lot of evidence that would hold up in court. At the end of the day, it looked like the feud was well and truly done, and the fans were left with very little.

And then June 19 rolled around.

(For my fellow non-Americans: Juneteenth- June 19- is a United States holiday that celebrates the end of slavery in the US. Quick explanation: Abraham Lincoln issued the Emancipation Proclamation, which declared that all slaves in the Confederate states were now free, on January 1, 1863; however, it took a while before it could actually be enforced in all of the Confederate states. June 19, 1865 was the date that Major General Gordon Granger ordered that the Emancipation Proclamation would be enforced in Texas, as the Civil War was finally drawing to an end. (For the record, this was not actually the total end of slavery in the US- for one, there were still slaves in states that had never seceded from the Union, and they weren’t freed until December 1865.) This will become very important later.)

On June 5, the concert was announced via an Instagram post, which told fans that it would be called ‘The Pop-Out: Ken & Friends’, that it would be held at the Kia Forum on June 19, and not much else. Fans immediately noted that the title seemed to indicate that Kendrick wasn’t letting up on the anti-Drake sentiment, as it’s ...

---

Content cut off. Read original on https://old.reddit.com/r/HobbyDrama/comments/1ei2430/raphiphop_the_drakekendrick_lamar_feud_act_eight/

This is an automated archive made by the Lemmit Bot.

The original was posted on /r/hobbydrama by /u/EnclavedMicrostate on 2024-07-29 04:02:15+00:00.

---

Welcome back to Hobby Scuffles!

Please read the Hobby Scuffles guidelines here before posting!

As always, this thread is for discussing breaking drama in your hobbies, offtopic drama (Celebrity/Youtuber drama etc.), hobby talk and more.

Reminders:

• Don’t be vague, and include context.
• Define any acronyms.
• Link and archive any sources.
• Ctrl+F or use an offsite search to see if someone's posted about the topic already.
• Keep discussions civil. This post is monitored by your mod team.

Certain topics are banned from discussion to pre-empt unnecessary toxicity. The list can be found here. Please check that your post complies with these requirements before submitting!

Previous Scuffles can be found here