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Palestine
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A community for everything related to Palestine and the occupation currently underway by the occupying force known as Israel.
Anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism. Existence is resistance for Palestinians.
Please refer to Israel as Occupied Palestine, or occupied territories. The IDF is a fascist and ethnonationalist occupying force. Israelis are settlers. We understand however that the imperial narrative (which tries to legitimise Israel) is internalised in the imperial core and slip-ups are naturally expected.
We always take the sides of Palestine and Palestinians and are unapologetic about it. Israel is an occupying power whose "defence force"'s (note the contradiction) sole purpose for existing is to push Palestinians out so they can resettle their rightful land. If you have anything positive to say about Israel we do not care.
founded 3 years ago
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Also :
« Israel last week rejected a proposal by the U.S. and France calling for a 21-day ceasefire to give time for a diplomatic settlement that would allow displaced civilians on both sides to return home. »
Please watch this 2mn video from the foreign minister of Jordan : https://x.com/LetsStopC9/status/1840635863073436150
I'm not going to try/search again to cite all the possibilities for Israel to make peace with its opponents, something could be given &/or conceded, but if we sometimes hear that the west loses its battles across the globe despite its military superiority it's because you don't win completely as long as there's still one heart in the population that hasn't been conquered, and it becomes problematic to solve if a majority of this population hates you(, you can't kill everyone).
The demands made to Israel are legitimate, who cares about expanding your borders, we'll be multi-planetary one day, and perhaps that alliances will make borders meaningless before that(, e.g. with the e.u.), uniting with its neighbours isn't impossible, including Iran, Syria, Yemen, Lebanon, Iraq, ...
Its opponents are opposed(, at least officially,) to very specific characteristics of Israel that aren't integral to its identity, where's the problem then, just agree with their demands. A pro-palestinian/yemeni/iranian/syrian/.. Israel that makes palestinians happy by 'living with'/helping each other would be accepted, that's only two requests. And making palestinians happy doesn't necessarily mean losing, but sharing the land, the wealth, the human rights(, not necessarily the population), and the rest. While i know it won't be easy and stay uncertain that it would go well, i dare think that it's not impossible.
Heck, i'll go further, so mock/correct me if you want, but 'in a perfect world'/'with perfect humans', we would have united with the vietnamese people and with the communists worldwide, we would have embraced Germany after a WW1 that shouldn't have happened in the first place, and colonization wouldn't have threatened the nazis/fascists/.. because it'd have been an honest/altruistic help to the South and not a.n 'greedy exploitation'&'irrecoverable destruction'. Our Earth is big enough for multiple ideologies, and are all these wars, for personal/nationalist gains, karma for our lack of humanity/'mutual aid', everyone suffers in the end.
The selfish preoccupied with keeping what's his doesn't even realize that he/we would be wealthier by sharing(, lands/resources/..).
These eternal wars for gaining always more are senseless if we're already one(&diverse), and it's not just words, it has practical/real consequences.
Israel could be accepted under certain legitimate conditions(, the same could be said for any country/conflict), of course the solution/compromises aren't always obvious, and the sober imperfect reality is that propaganda only exposes one side, so in the end only might makes right.
In fact, it's often(, almost always now that i think about it,) the weakest that is right, at least if it's the only one ready to make concessions, while usually the strongest doesn't want to, or on an unequal footing. Israel would have already accepted a ceasefire a long time ago if its opponents were strong enough(, and that's the truth), it isn't actively seeking to make peace with its neighbours, nor even ready to make the most basic concessions in regard to its illegal settlements.
I believe that the conditions/details for Israel's acceptation should be one of the main topic in discussion(, not only that everyone knows them, which isn't the case at least here in the west, but that Israel finally complies with the basic demands in order to be finally accepted, instead of greedily wanting more&more). It won't, and i don't think that they'll vote far-left anytime soon, so causes will bring their consequences.
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Iran's Khamenei calls on Muslims to confront Israel in first comments after Nasrallah killing
(www.middleeasteye.net)
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Mixed messages on Israel and Palestine. What it was like at the Labour Party conference
(www.middleeasteye.net)
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UN General Assembly 2024: Diplomats walk out in protest against Netanyahu address
(www.middleeasteye.net)
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How CNN, ADL & Others Amplified Smear Against Rep. Rashida Tlaib for Criticizing Campus Prosecutions
(www.democracynow.org)
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'This Maniac Must Be Stopped': Netanyahu Condemned Over Massive Beirut Bombing
(www.commondreams.org)
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Israel’s heavy air attack on Beirut was attempt to kill Hezbollah leader, reports say
(www.theguardian.com)
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Israel accused of breaking global labor law by withholding Palestinian worker pay
(www.theguardian.com)
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‘Genocide is not a Jewish value,’ say Jews and Rabbis as they storm AIPAC offices
(www.middleeastmonitor.com)
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Palestinian Journalist Mujahed al-Saadi Violently Arrested by Israeli Forces in Home Raid
(www.dropsitenews.com)
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“It’s Bisan from Gaza and I’m Still Alive” Wins Emmy for Outstanding Hard News Feature
(www.democracynow.org)
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Blinken Faces Calls to Resign Over Lie That Israel Is Not Blocking Gaza Aid
(www.commondreams.org)
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Where's the lie ? (The rest of the rules are in the selftext, it's a similar war propaganda for most conflicts)
(lemmygrad.ml)
To read these rules without my annoying personal additions : https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/15-rules-for-discussing-israeli-warmongering
Rule 1 : Recorded history began on October 7 2023. Maybe some things happened before that date, but nobody can remember.
Rule 2 : Anything bad that Israel does is justified by Rule 1. This is true even if it does things that would be considered completely unjustifiable if it were done by a nation like Russia or Iran.
Rule 3 : Israel has a right to defend itself, but nobody else does.
Rule 4 : Israel never bombs civilians, it bombs terrorists. If shocking numbers of civilians die it’s because they were actually terrorists, or because terrorists killed them, or because a terrorist stood too close to them. If none of those reasons apply then it’s for some other mysterious reason we are still waiting for the IDF to investigate.
Rule 5 : Criticizing anything Israel does means you hate Jewish people. There is no other reason anyone could possibly oppose military explosives being dropped on areas packed full of children besides a seething, obsessive hatred for a small Abrahamic faith.
[Personal addition : Or you're unpatriotic, a terrorist sympathizer, or a similar slur justifying your censorship/exclusion without considering your arguments.]
Rule 6 : Nothing Israel does is ever as bad as the hateful criticisms described in Rule 5. Criticism of Israel’s actions is always worse than Israel’s actions themselves, because those critics hate Jews and wish to commit another Holocaust. Preventing this must consume 100 percent of our political energy and attention.
Rule 7 : Israel can never be the victimizer, it can only ever be the victim. If Israel attacks Lebanon, it’s because Hezbollah attacked it completely unprovoked while Israel was innocently minding its own business trying to commit a little genocide in peace.
[Personal addition : The 2006 war made at least 1200 Lebanese victims, mostly civilians, and 160 israelis victims, 40 civilians]
If people protest against Israel bombing entire cities into dust, then Israel is the victim because the protests made Israel’s supporters feel sad.
Rule 8 : The fact that Israel is literally always in a state of war with its neighbors and with displaced indigenous populations must be interpreted as proof that Rule 7 is true instead of proof that Rule 7 is ridiculous nonsense.
[Personal addition of examples : "preemptive de-escalation" through war since you don't negotiate with terrorists/enemies, increase of the settlements, abandon of the peace process, ... This aggressive path is painted as necessary/'the only way' for survival.]
Rule 9 : Arab lives are much, much less important to us than western lives or Israeli lives.
Nobody is allowed to think too hard about why this might be.
[Personal note : Western leaders who disagree should explain why they keep sending weapons to Israel, it sure seems that it's because its defense&lives are more important than those of palestinians, we're not really a human family(, yet ?)]
Rule 10 : The media always tell the truth [personal addition : without biases or double standards,] about Israel and its various conflicts.
If you doubt this then you are likely in violation of Rule 5.
Rule 11 : Unsubstantiated claims which portray Israel’s enemies in a negative light may be reported [Personal note : i haven't checked the two last two links but wouldn't be surprised of one more lie] as factual news stories without any fact checking or qualifications, while extensively evidenced records of Israeli criminality must be reported on with extreme skepticism and doubtful qualifiers like “Lebanon says” or “according to the Hamas-run health ministry”. This is important to do because otherwise you might get accused of being a propagandist.
Rule 12 : Israel must continue to exist in its current iteration no matter what it costs or how many people need to die. There is no need to present any logically or morally grounded reasons why this is the case. If you dispute this then you are likely in violation of Rule 5.
Rule 13 : The US government has never lied about anything ever, and is always on the right side of every conflict.
Rule 14 : (Americans only) Nothing that happens in the middle east is as urgent or significant as making sure the correct person wins the US presidential election. Ignore any inconvenient facts which distract you from this mission of unparalleled importance.
Rule 15 : Israel must be protected because it is the last bastion of freedom and democracy in the middle east, no matter how many journalists it has to assassinate, no matter how many press institutions it needs to shut down, no matter how many protests its supporters need to dismantle, no matter how much free speech it needs to eliminate, no matter how many civil rights it needs to erase, and no matter how many elections its lobbyists need to buy.
Yeah, feels pointless to post that, sorry
Since i'm talking of double standards, let's defend myself :
- If Russia allowed Ukraine to abandon neutrality and actively rejoin Russia's enemies, and be used by them, it'd include(, but not be limited to,) agreeing to make Crimea a useful n.a.t.o. base against the russian fleet, not support the pro-russian/anti-n.a.t.o. population of south Ukraine, have consequences at home and in Belarus, losing an historical last line of defense, etc. The cultural/political/military/.. consequences were deemed unacceptable(, e.g., maritime roads, antimissiles systems as well as close proximity n.a.t.o. missiles leaving less time to react, radars(, e.g. supply chains to Syria,) and spying/'intelligence services' on the ground, proximity to military/industrial centers, geopolitical&military containment, increased influence to internal separatists as well as russian citizens, certainly more...,) and it's unfair, the n.a.t.o. promised not to expand eastwards, now they even want parts of the ex-u.s.s.r.. I don't know what russians could have done to counter the n.a.t.o. expansion to their borders, but i know what the n.a.t.o. could have (not) done in order to avoid this war ;
- If Israel didn't go on their killing spree, or stopped after killing twice as many palestinians as israelis were murdered, then nothing more would have happened, and they could have exchanged hostages. They could have also stopped expanding their settlements and listened to other legitimate demands, and hence launch back the peace process, that'd have been useful in order to decrease the risk of other attacks. But i don't know what palestinians can do if israelis don't even want a two-states "solution".
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