“People think, increasingly it appears, that we shouldn’t be doing this. Well, let me start by saying we haven’t lost a single American in this war,” McConnell said. “Most of the money that we spend related to Ukraine is actually spent in the US, replenishing weapons, more modern weapons. So it’s actually employing people here and improving our own military for what may lie ahead.”

cross-posted from: https://lemm.ee/post/4085063

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[–] bitsplease@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There seems to be a startling overlap on lemmy between Communists and Russia supporters. Can't say I've ever seen a comment either from hexbear or lemmy grad in favor of Ukraine over Russia.

If it's not because they think Russia is on the side of communism, then what the hell is going on in their heads?

[–] honeynut@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Support as in they enjoy the prospect of Russia winning? That they like Putin and want him to conquer Ukraine?

They mostly consider this war to be a proxy war between Russia and United States + its wards in the EU who wish to needlessly prolong the war at the cost of Ukranian lives in order to deplete the Russian economy and military. Within this group, you can further break them down into: those who disagree with the invasion and those who believe it is justified.

For the latter, they would point to the secession crisis in the Donbass after the Maidan and subsequent intentional blockading of fresh water to Crimea as justification for intervention, with the prospects of Ukraine joining NATO being the trigger.

For the group that disavows the invasion, you need to understand that it is difficult for communists to cheerleader their own state pumping weapons into a country whose government heralds bold-faced Nazis as righteous warriors of freedom. This does not necessarily mean they believe that Putin is genuinely concerned about Nazis since the Wagner PMC itself has a notorious far right and neo-Nazi presence.

Simply not supporting the Ukrainian state nor NATO does not mean supporting Russia. On the other hand, those who do support Russia aren't always necessarily communists, but will flock to spaces that have that overlap in interests.

[–] bitsplease@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Support as in they enjoy the prospect of Russia winning? That they like Putin and want him to conquer Ukraine?

I mean, yes - as a matter of fact. Just look in this thread at the numerous comments from those two instances of users saying that Ukraine should have just surrendered, and that it's their fault for not agreeing to Putin's "peace" proposal.

You're definitely not going to hear me argue in favor of NATO's actions, but none of that (with the exception of Ukraine joining NATO) excuses an invasion of Ukraine - and regarding Ukraine joining NATO - they're a sovereign state, it's not Russias right to invade their neighbors because they don't like Ukraines international policy. If the US decided to invade Mexico because they were thinking about signing a mutual defense agreement with China, you can bet your ass I'd be out in the street protesting the war.

And if we're going to say that a country deserves to be ravaged because a small portion of their population espouses white supremacist policies, then I guess the U.S., Italy, Germany, Russia itself, and a whole shitload others should start getting shelled as well. Unfortunately, for very complex reasons, a huge chunk of the world has a neonazi problem right now, using it as an excuse for an invasion is absolute bull shit.

Simply not supporting the Ukrainian state nor NATO does not mean supporting Russia

Except that it does. Russia invaded Ukraine - and so far they haven't given a single signal that they'd be willing to any peace agreement that leaves Ukraine with it's original borders. Ultimately if Ukraine loses, it'll mean that it will be annexed. It would be a very different situation if Russia was offering a real peace (one that doesn't involve Ukraine giving up it's own territory) and Ukraine was being obstinate, but there is no realistic pacifist position to be taken here

[–] honeynut@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago

I'm not debating. The original conversation was that you said communists supported Russia because they think it's communist, and I clarified that they really don't.

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