menby

7953 readers
1 users here now

A space for masculine folks to talk about living under patriarchy.

Detoxing masculinity since 1990!

You don’t get points for feminism, feminism is expected.

Guidelines:

  1. Questions over blame
  2. Humility over pride
  3. Wisdom over dogma
  4. Actions over image

Rules (expansions on the guidelines):

  1. Mistakes should be learning experiences when possible.
    • Do not attack comrades displaying vulnerability for what they acknowledge are mistakes.
    • If you see good-faith behavior that's toxic, do your best to explain why it's toxic.
    • If you don't have the energy to engage, report and move on.
    • This includes past mistakes. If you've overcome extreme reactionary behavior, we'd love to know how.
    • A widened range of acceptable discussion means a greater need for sensitivity and patience for your comrades.
    • Examples:
      • "This is reactionary. Here's why."
      • "I know that {reality}, but I feel like {toxicity}"
      • "I don't understand why this is reactionary, but it feels like it {spoilered details}"
  2. You are not entitled to the emotional labor of others.
    • Constantly info-dumping and letting us sort through your psyche is not healthy for any of us.
    • If you feel a criticism of you is unfair, do not lash out.
    • If you can't engage self-critically, delete your post.
    • If you don't know how to phrase why it's unfair, say so.
  3. No singular masculine ideal.
    • This includes promoting gender-neutral traits like "courage" or "integrity" as "manly".
    • Suggestions for an individual to replace a toxic ideal is fine.
    • Don't reinforce the idea the fulfillment requires masculinity.
    • This also includes tendency struggle-sessions.
  4. No lifestyle content.
    • Post the picture of your new grill in !food (feminine people like grills too smh my head).
    • Post the picture of the fish you caught in !sports (feminine people like fish too smdh my damn head).
    • At best, stuff like this is off-topic. At worst, it's reinforcing genders norms..
    • If you're not trying to be seen as masculine for your lifestyle content, it's irrelevant to this comm. If you are trying to be seen as masculine, let's have a discussion about why these things are seen as masculine.

Resources:

*The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by Bell Hooks

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
1
28
submitted 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) by Breath_Of_The_Snake@hexbear.net to c/menby@hexbear.net
 
 

**Crossposter's note: I was working on a discussion post with excerpts, but this is a really good thread I don't want to split the discussion. Please just participate in the original instead. **

cross-posted from: https://hexbear.net/post/3652499

thanks to @iridaniotter@hexbear.net for telling me abt this essay! its been posted on HB before, but not in a while.

read feminist theory you libs! uphold TC69 thought!

2
 
 

Please chime in with the type of content and discussion you would like to see hear.

I’ve left up all the old posts instead of doing a thorough pruning (apparently it closed due to a lack of moderation letting too much slip through the cracks). If you’re interested in helping out without posting or moderating please report actively, while there is value in calling out in the comments and trying to teach leaving anything egregious up for too long could promote people blocking the comm even if they might otherwise want to see the “good” posts and/or milder learning opportunities.

Should probably do a poll on whether to be local only as well once it’s active again. So Sopranos emotes if you have an opinion on that.

Cheers

3
 
 

Fueled by the rise of social media and a lucrative, unregulated supplements industry, more boys and young men today are bulking up to the point of risking their overall health. A measured amount of weight training can be positive and healthy, but it’s neither when body image turns into an obsession or exercise becomes excessive.

Nagata published research in the Journal of Adolescent Health in 2019 that found about a third of teenage boys reported trying to gain weight. The study was based on data from more than 15,000 high school students in the 2015 Youth Risk Behavior Survey. And in Current Opinion in Pediatrics in 2021, Nagata and his co-authors wrote that about 22 percent of teen boys and young men are engaging in some sort of muscle-building behavior.

The red flag for a young man or a teenage boy is when exercise or food choices lead to preoccupations or obsessions with appearance, body size, weight or exercise in a way that worsens their quality of life, Nagata says.

“It’s not just the activity itself, it’s also the way the activity makes them feel,” Nagata stresses. “So when someone says that the exercise is really causing them more worry or preoccupation than joy, and when it starts to impair their schoolwork or social functioning, those are all red flags regardless of the actual activity, but just how they perceive it.” More warning signs on body image

Gabriela Vargas, a pediatrician and director of the Young Men’s Health website at Boston Children’s Hospital, urges parents to look for boys becoming hyper-fixated on what they’re eating, having highly regimented meals, cutting out specific types of food groups (such as carbs or sugars) or dramatically increasing the amount of protein that they’re taking in. Going from one protein shake a day to five or having a pre- and post-workout shake multiple times a day is a nutritional warning sign.

“If a parent sees their teen engaging in hyper-exercising or protein supplement use, I would encourage them to have a conversation with their teen as to why they are changing their behavior,” Vargas says. “They should share their concerns with the teen and encourage the teen to reduce their exercise and/or protein supplement use.”

She also encourages parents to speak with their child’s primary care doctor if they’re worried about behavior.

Bulking up, with the associated risky behaviors of skewed nutrient intake and excessive exercise, can be as dangerous as the drastic weight loss associated with more frequently discussed eating disorders such as anorexia. When a growing teen has energy deficits from either not enough caloric intake or too much exercise, they’re not getting adequate nutrition to match the energy they’re exerting either through exercise or their baseline metabolic needs.

“Boys with eating disorders, if they’re in this relative malnutrition state, they will have lower testosterone levels and lower libido levels,” he says. “I think one of the big challenges is many of these boys and young men are engaging in these behaviors with the ultimate goal of increasing or maximizing their performance and appearance. But in the end, it can actually stunt their growth.”

In younger boys still in the early stages of puberty, a relatively low level of testosterone can also lead to limited gains in muscle mass.

“Boys feel a lot of pressure when they’re in that stage of development where they haven’t really gone through the later stages of puberty yet,” says S. Bryn Austin, a professor in Harvard University’s Department of Social and Behavioral Sciences. But they “don’t have the same kind of hormonal environment” to support significant muscle gain, which means there isn’t a lot of potential to gain muscle mass for the average 10- to 14-year-old boy who lifts weights and drinks protein shakes

Although muscle strength can improve performance in sports, often this pursuit of the ideal male body isn’t to do better on the field, but to look better — or more muscular — in the mirror. The goal isn’t bigger, stronger and faster. It’s just bigger.

“In terms of how boys and young men learn about masculinity, just being big is a way of expressing masculinity and dominance,” Austin says.

Studies looking at boys’ action figures have found that, over a 25-year period, the toys have become more muscular, with bulging biceps and broad chests. “The increase in action figure dimensions may contribute to the multifactoral development of an idealized body type that focuses on a lean, muscular physique. This occurrence may particularly influence the perceptions of preadolescent males,” the researchers wrote.

Related research has shown that boys prefer those hyper-muscularized toys over their skinnier predecessors.

“They’re exposed to [examples of muscularity] at a very early age,” Nagata says.

“So, late childhood, late elementary school, early adolescence, boys are learning, they’re learning about what the expectations are about this, the so-called ideal body that they are expected to grow into,” Austin notes.

And what starts with toys and cartoon superheroes is amplified through social media platforms such as TikTok and Instagram. With algorithms directed at funneling content, all it takes is a click, or even a pause on muscle-building content and users will keep getting more and more. This can foster an illusion that everyone is muscular or engaging in muscle-building behavior.

“Because it’s also such a societal norm,” Vargas says, “it’s really tough for parents to figure out when is this just my kid as a teenager versus my kid has a problem.”

“I think the added pressure with social media is that with all those traditional forms — books, television, movies — back in the day, most people were living in a read-only environment,” Nagata says. “For the most part, your average teenage boy would not expect to be featured in a movie or become a celebrity.”

Research looking at social media effects on teenage boys found that disordered eating behavior, muscle dissatisfaction and use of steroids are associated with more time spent on Instagram. “Findings like these demonstrate that social media can create pressures for boys to display and compare their muscular physiques,” Nagata says.

If social media is the fire, supplements are the gasoline. The use of muscle-building supplements is pervasive, with more than half of boys and men in adolescence through early adulthood taking protein powder or shakes.

The products, which are marketed heavily to boys and men, are not federally regulated for safety or effectiveness and leave unanswered questions of safety. “There’s a lot of research done where they do lab tests on these products and what they say on the label is not even reflective of what’s actually in these bottles, pills, powders,” Austin says.

Trying to figure out what’s safe for an adolescent to use is virtually impossible, experts say. Because of these unknowns, Vargas advises adolescents not to take any supplements.

“If they then want more guidance, then I will refer them to a dietitian within our clinic or a dietitian in the community,” she adds.

... the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends 60 minutes of daily physical activity for children and teens, and exercise and strength training can be a positive for many. But “if a young person wants to increase their physical activity I encourage them to talk about this with their parents, coaches and primary care provider,” Vargas says.

4
 
 

Whenever people are like oh we need to empathize w/ incels, care about their feelings blah blah, I just think about what Lundy Bancroft said about abusers.

They need to learn empathy, and this excessive focus on their feelings is a barrier to them learning empathy.

🐦🔗: https://twitter.com/iHateCogsci/status/1610409758120361984

https://sb-ex6e14yir4.b-cdn.net/media_attachments/files/109/628/430/505/308/353/original/db370a81de5f1eee.png

But this is step 1 of "offering an alternative": recognizing that it takes different skillsets/social conditions to get them well-adjusted, because for whatever reason they're starting from a different psychological basis.

I agree that to some extent the whole idea of focusing on these guys is counterproductive. But focusing on them is not the same as making sure that our movement is equipped to deal with them effectively, without having to relive this generational moment over and over again.

They feel alienated from society because it feels unlivably complex, and they happen to fit enough heuristics of the power group that they feel entitled to deal with that complexity by violently maximizing their adherence to power.

The right takes advantage of this by a) being in power already, b) being the same kind of people, and c) happy to use these guys to further their own interests. So they offer the easy, accessible, lowest-common-denominator solution of just catering to that entitlement.

Of course "Be a good person" doesn't effectively compete. But that doesn't have to be the only narrative the left offers. We need the next step, a narrative that starts with "Be a good person" and builds it into a competitively epic cognitive reward mechanism.

5
 
 

I support you in your fight against toxic masculinity, and in your exploration and expression of an authentic masculinity.

I reject second-wave feminism blaming each individual man/masc-aligned person for the consequences of patriarchy, thus obscuring its systemic nature while denying us effective weapons to combat it.

I’m proud of you for the work you’ve already done on yourselves and in your communities. Each and every one of you has what it takes to overcome reactionary impulses, to love yourselves and your comrades, and to be a part of our inevitable global communism.

I salute you, masc-aligned comrades.
I salute you, men of the left.