this post was submitted on 26 Jun 2023
182 points (99.5% liked)

Memes

44968 readers
1348 users here now

Rules:

  1. Be civil and nice.
  2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] El_Rocha@lm.put.tf 5 points 1 year ago (32 children)

What if a person creates a new type of clothing that has high demand because it's better than what exists before?

What if that person starts getting interest from other people who want the clothes and they try to trade currency (I'm not sure if in your communist system this exists, so consider other items people have or something) and then transactions start to happen?

What if the person gets so busy, he gets another person to help him with the trades in exchange for a fixed amount?

In which of these steps does it turn from "no one cares what you do with your own labor" to "give us your business or else"?

[–] read_deleuze@lemmy.ml 37 points 1 year ago (26 children)

This simply wouldn't happen because an anarchist society wouldn't recognize intellectual property and so it would be trivial to just... make more of this kind of clothing. And no, there is no currency, and barter would be pointless as access to goods is common anyways.

This whole point to me signals a deeper (but common) misunderstanding as to what the point of it all is, though; there would be no incentive or reason for someone to act this way in any kind of postcapitalist society, because the assumptions you are making that even make this situation possible are false.

Labour is not a repulsive act that people have to be paid to do; for virtually any "job", even the most repulsive, there are some people who are truly passionate about it. But in a society where doing said work is demanded under threat of starvation, any appeal it may have had is soured by the reality of this situation and it shifts from a fulfilling and desirable action to a repulsive one.

As an extra point that not all anarchists will agree with, increases in productivity thanks to automation and technological progress (often spearheaded not by corporate projects under NDA but by the open-source community and individual hackers, only to be commercialized by corporations) mean that the real quantity of work that needs to be performed to uphold humanity at a good standard of living is drastically less than the amount currently being performed. Capitalism is inefficient, both in that it doesn't allocate resources where they're productive (accumulation of capital) and because of work duplication and artificial barriers (tech and engineering firms keeping code/designs private or patented, industry keeping trade secrets, etc.)

tl;dr that scenario is impossible.

[–] El_Rocha@lm.put.tf 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (23 children)

The thing is, there are jobs that need to be done but no one wants and there are jobs everyone wants but only few are needed/have the ability to do it.

Do you really believe that in a state where everything you need is provided enough people will be "passionate" about sewer maintenance?

The thought of enough people will be passionate about every job in order to fill the required number of positions in those jobs, when everything is provided whether they work or not, is simply a delusion.

[–] SolarNialamide@slrpnk.net 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not everyone has to be passionate about it. You could devise a sort of lottery system for jobs that can't be automated and suck, where everyone will have to do that job for a set amount of time. People do these jobs for 40 hours a week now because they know it's necessary for their own survival, so I personally don't feel like it's far-fetched to think that people would okay with doing a certain job for way less time a week, knowing that in a few weeks or however long they'll never have to do it anymore because their name is now gone from the lottery pool, because they know it's necessary for the survival of society (and thus also themselves).

[–] El_Rocha@lm.put.tf 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

So would then other people be rotated in order to fill the positions of the people already being rotated and so on?

[–] SolarNialamide@slrpnk.net 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You could do that. You could also make it a bit more nuanced, where the pool of people only consists of people doing non-vital work. So maybe doctors and nuclear engineers and firefighters and teachers could be excluded, while only people doing non-vital work get rotated in, and it wouldn't be such a big deal if one person is missing for a couple of weeks or months. Nobody is gonna die if you have to wait a bit longer to get your hair cut or your house painted or to see that new movie, and there would be an understanding that you have to wait a bit longer because important work is being done. You'd also have so many people who are freed up from useless or destructive work like ceo's, finance, middle managers, marketing, etc that maybe you wouldn't even notice if someone got rotated in, because everyone else could just pick up like 3 extra hours a week for a little while.

[–] El_Rocha@lm.put.tf 1 points 1 year ago

If you divide between people working vital and non-vital work, aren't you creating two distinct classes where the system is supposed to eliminate all classes?

load more comments (21 replies)
load more comments (23 replies)
load more comments (28 replies)