this post was submitted on 05 Oct 2023
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[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago (56 children)

The war happened because NATO kept expanding eastwards. Stoltenberg has now publicly acknowledged that Putin made clear to NATO in a draft treaty before the war that it could avert it if NATO agreed not to keep enlarging. But NATO rejected the offer.

Then lastly on Sweden. First of all, it is historic that now Finland is member of the Alliance. And we have to remember the background. The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn't sign that.

The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_218172.htm#:~:text=The%20background%20was%20that%20President,condition%20for%20not%20invade%20Ukraine

[–] RedBaronHarkonnen@lemm.ee -4 points 1 year ago (51 children)

The war happened because Russia does not comply with international agreements.

Everybody agreed to Ukraine's borders.

Russia is not trustworthy and if they were allowed to get away with this they'd not stop.

Appeasing Putin results in an actual WW3.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -4 points 1 year ago (5 children)

How long did it take you to come up with the dumbest take humanely possible?

[–] RedBaronHarkonnen@lemm.ee -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You want a war with billions of deaths and think I am dumb. That is hilarious.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm not the one who says NATO should continue escalating the proxy war, you are. That's how you get WW3 by continuing to escalate the war instead of stopping it and starting negotiations. Anybody who has even a couple of brain cells to rub together understands this.

[–] RedBaronHarkonnen@lemm.ee -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You are a paid Russian agent. Your arguments basically do not exist and you seek to illicit an emotional response and distract rather than have a honest conversation.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -4 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] RedBaronHarkonnen@lemm.ee -3 points 1 year ago

You are a paid Russian agent. Your arguments basically do not exist and you seek to illicit an emotional response and distract rather than have a honest conversation.

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