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this post was submitted on 06 Dec 2023
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i had no idea that having green chat bubbles upset people so much.
The issue isn't so much the message color. It's the ability to send videos that aren't potato quality and other media.
Which should go away anyway once Apple bakes in RCS support
Which they will surely do with no caveats whatsoever.
They’re doing the GSMA standard and nothing else. I think they refuse to play ball with any standard Google controls either directly or indirectly.
I hate apple as much as the next guy, but I respect them for that
It’s just smart business. Why give up any level of control of anything to a direct competitor when you don’t have to?
Especially Google, and especially the crappy implementation of RCS.
I see posts every day of people having issues. Messages not sent, not received, etc.
They're not doing encryption, because Google is using their own.
RCS is too little, too late. It sucks. I refuse to ever use it.
oh, can't android users receive high-quality videos and photos? after 16 years of smartphones, you'd think they'd have that figured out...
Yeah the whole reason Apple won't allow it is because they expect you to conclude exactly this.
👆 your average apple user, oblivious to the world around them
android is 70% of the world, so stop acting like only USA exist
I wasn’t the one who brought up the world or USA, or who even made this a competition
Reading comprehension doesn't appear to be your strong suit.
Don’t blame me for your sense of self importance, lol
It's not the android side that's failing, it's Apples refusal to implement anything other than SMS for cross ecosystem compatibility.
It's also why third party messaging apps like Whatsapp are thriving, much to the consternation of every person on the network. I used to be able to pick up the phone and call or message anyone. Now I need to check compatibility first. Wtf apple.
@Mountaineer @gregorum Apple is going to implement RCS, the EU put pressure on them.
However I am surprised that Beeper was able to do this in software. With everyone else using an Apple device as a proxy, I figured the protocol required a magic handshake from the TPM chip in an Apple device. That would be easy to do.
There's some gotchas in Apples statement:
They have promised to implement "RCS Universal Profile"
This means the bare minimum, not the advanced features implemented by Google and Samsung etc.
An example of a missing feature from Universal Profile is end to end encryption.
They also said: "This will work alongside iMessage, which will continue to be the best and most secure messaging experience for Apple users."
The implication of this is that it won't be in the iMessage app, it will be in a separate but official app, siloing your Android friends from your iPhone friends.
When this comes out, every European is going to shrug and keep using Whatsapp.
@Mountaineer Encryption needs to be added to the standard, and then Apple will be expected to implement it. Hopefully the EU knocks some heads together and makes this happen.
WhatsApp is owned by Facebook and has ads, which is two good reasons not to use it. Europeans are just as "stuck with a bad standard" as Americans are here.
I use RCS quite a bit and like it. Although nothing on a phone should be regarded as truly secure.
Lol wut
SMS and iMessage both work via the same Messages app. All they’ll do is add RCS functionality to the Messages app, and iPhone users will continue using the same app they’ve always used.
what? that's not the implication at all. it'll work just like SMS does now. same app, just RCS instead of SMS
I agree with this part of your statement 100%.
It will work POORLY.
Whether it's in the same app or simply a different colour like SMS is currently, it'll be a half assed implementation, designed to segregate your iphone and android friends.
Got an existing iphone group chat? Bet you can't add an RCS participant to it.
Create a new RCS group chat so you can include everyone? Bet it's missing features that you'd get in imessage.
Receive a high resolution video from a friend via imessage? Forward that to another friend via RCS and they'll receive 5 blurry pixels.
And throughout all of this, apple will blame the RCS protocol and say "We're actively working with GSMA to improve RCS".
No one trusts apple for the very simple reason that they have a habit of saying the quiet part out loud: Tim Cook Says 'Buy Your Mom An iPhone'
unfortunately you're right. it'll be marginally better, sure, but I have zero doubt the "green bubble" is just going to be a different color. better than nothing I guess
RCS is too liitle, too late. It sucks. People have issues with it today... It's less reliable than SMS, and it's E2EE is problematic.
Fortunately much of the world has moved away from SMS already, so those folks aren't coming back. I try real hard to get people away from it.
@BearOfaTime I have RCS and use it. It works fine. I have not noticed significant reliability problems, using Google's servers. If there are problems it's likely the carrier's garbage implementation.
There is no standard here in the USA except SMS.
It works fine, for you. When it works is irrelevant. When it doesn't is what matters.
Go to reddit look for RCS problem posts. It's terrible.
Even worse, I can send high quality images and video from android to iPhone if they're both on Verizon. When the iPhone sends it back, it's trashed.
That said, SMS/MMS suck. SMS has a known, published loss of messages at about 12%. What the hell?
iOS can't send hi quality videos or images over SMS. It's a choice made by Apple.
I can send large videos (more than 50mb, for sure) over SMS from my Android phone on Verizon to a Verizon iPhone. They receive it in same quality. When they send it back, the iPhone butchers it.
Verizon, unlike other carriers, doesn't seem to have an MMS size limit.
You need to think of iMessage as Google messages, Whatsapp, telegram, signal, etc. Except this is only installed on iPhones and they want everyone to know it. It's arrogant and stupid. The app could just be released for Android and it would be no different than the others I mentioned.
It's gatekeeping.
That is not the issue. At all. Lol
Android to Android, sure.
But Apple and Google refuse to play nicely with each other, so Android to Iphone or Iphone to Android both suck.
It's not a lack of capability, it's the refusal to implement it to try and force users to pick a side.
Yeah this is a gross mischaracterization of the situation.
Google is more than happy to "play nicely" with Apple. They're the ones who convinced Apple to adopt RCS. Apple is the one holding out.
They totally do "play nicely" on literally every messenger app in existence except iMessage, which is the only SMS app you're allowed to use on iOS. This is not any sort of hardware or software limitation, this is purely greed from Apple to control their users and create a walled garden, to the detriment of their own customers.
This entire shitty situation is 100% on Apple and their users.
To be fair, Google’s messaging plans and implementations have been all over the place for a decade. Apple still should have been more proactive. They promised iMessage would come to Android until they realized how much of a moat it became for their business.
Apple has no obligation to use any of Google's or Google's preferred communication standards. They can open up the iMessage protocol or they can use literally any other open standards (like Signal's).
I don't really care which of them is responsible for it not working decently, that's why I didn't point the finger at one in particular.
Point is, it's between these two companies to agree on a solution that works for both of them and actually implement it. Yet after all this time, they still haven't to the detriment of consumers globally.
I'll believe the IOS RCS implementation when it's actually released. Promises from corporations are worthless.
No you pointed the finger at both of them, which is why I corrected you.
Point is you can't have an agreement when the other party won't even entertain a conversation, nor do they want to come to an agreement.
Google chat, or whatever they call it now, fixed that.
If you're talking about RCS, androids newer native messaging system, no apple has not implemented that yet.
There has always been dozens of messaging apps users can use, including Google Chat, but they are all seprate apps that both you and the recipient have to choose to install and use. That's the main problem.
The goal is to have the native messaging apps on both platforms be able to speak to each other with the same quality right out of the box, just as they can within the same platform right now (apple to apple, and android to android).
you can when it's android to android. as soon as an iphone is in play, the iphone immediately decreases the quality, even though the MMS standard allows for attachments up to 100MB in size
Android uses RCS now, a higher quality and more feature rich standard than SMS. However... Apple hasn't added it to iOS, so it doesn't work to send to iPhones and they receive bog-standard SMS from Android devices.
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You're joking, right?
i'm laughing, if that's what you mean.
iOS can't send hi quality videos or images over SMS. It's a choice made by Apple.
I can send large videos (more than 50mb, for sure) over SMS from my Android phone on Verizon to a Verizon iPhone. They receive it in same quality. When they send it back, the iPhone butchers it.
Verizon, unlike other carriers, doesn't seem to have an MMS size limit.