this post was submitted on 20 Jul 2023
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Hi all,

I'm seeing a lot of hate for capitalism here, and I'm wondering why that is and what the rationale behind it is. I'm pretty pro-capitalism myself, so I want to see the logic on the other side of the fence.

If this isn't the right forum for a political/economic discussion-- I'm happy to take this somewhere else.

Cheers!

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[โ€“] o_o@programming.dev 7 points 1 year ago (22 children)

Yeah, and if they serve the needs of customers better, then they'll be given encouragement (money). If they don't, they'll be given discouragement (they lose their investments). Seems like a good system, no?

Of course, corruption and regulatory capture subvert this system and are bad for everyone, but those are subversions of capitalism.

[โ€“] julianh@lemm.ee 60 points 1 year ago (21 children)

Are they really subversions? A pure capitalist society is determined purely by incentives and the rules of economy (supply and demand and such). If it's in a business's best interest to do something unethical, they will do it. They will band together to price fix, they'll collaborate to pay workers the bare minimum, they'll create monopolys and duopolies to get the most money possible, because in a capitalist society, money is the #1 incentive. Government regulations are anti-capitalist policies to prevent these things from happening - although maybe not as effectively as they should be, given how things are.

[โ€“] o_o@programming.dev 2 points 1 year ago (20 children)

Capitalism is defined as a set of rules/regulations that allows people to own the capital that they produce. Regulatory capture is when an organization gains control of the regulations to subvert other people's ability to own their capital. This is why I say that the more regulatory capture that happens, the less capitalist the system.

And yes! Capitalist systems heavily incentivize caring about money and nothing else. But the system also makes it so that when people act purely selfishly for money, that it results in good outcomes for everyone. That's why I think it's a good system.

For example, if organizations price-fix, it heavily encourages a third party to undercut them. If they try to prevent the third party by legal means, then that's not capitalism.

[โ€“] jake_eric@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

But the system also makes it so that when people act purely selfishly for money, that it results in good outcomes for everyone.

Why do you think this??

Look at all the constant environmental disasters and harmful products that happen because corporations did the math and determined that paying a few million to lawsuits every once in a while is cheaper than being more careful. "Voting with your wallet" does not work because the big corporations undercut the competition and bombard us with advertising to ensure they will win no matter what.

Hell, most of us are on here because Reddit started doing scummy things in the name of money, and we're a tiny fraction of their userbase; Reddit is still unfortunately doing pretty much fine. Is that the best outcome for everyone?

And don't forget that there are a lot of regulations passed in the last hundred years that were necessary because corporations were doing stuff like dumping so many chemicals into our waterways that rivers would constantly catch fire. This is what happens with unfettered capitalism.

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