Also, it is a time management issue, on a cultural level. Try getting Germans to stay past their shift they'll tell you to get better at managing. Not their department, not their problem.

Thinking "fixing this requires a socialist revolution" honestly is part of the problem: Organise to fix the issue, there, workers will see that issues can be fixed, fix more that comes up, and they'll both be emboldened and educated about their strength. Foreplay before sex.

[–] MountingSuspicion@reddthat.com 1 points 10 months ago (3 children)

The fact that you suggest it's a cultural issue and then state it can be rectified by organizing is exactly my point. This person is essentially shaming the individual worker for falling prey to a cultural and systemic problem.

I never said we need a socialist revolution. In this context I left system open ended, but you can't effectively organize anything with people you're hostile to and unwilling to build solidarity with. I don't think a socialist revolution is likely or even necessary, but more empathy is. The OP sentiment is not foreplay, it's outright rejection. It seems like we are actually in agreement.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 1 points 10 months ago (2 children)

This person is essentially shaming the individual worker for falling prey to a cultural and systemic problem.

And that's not a way to change culture because...? It's "if your friends jumped from a bridge" in disguise.

[–] MountingSuspicion@reddthat.com 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Shame is not as effective as offering support, especially since the root cause of the behavior is not necessarily in the persons control. Working additional hours might be seen as a requirement in some fields, so you might be shaming them into not talking about the issue, but the best way to actually solve the problem would likely be to empathize with them and change their perspective.

If someone is in an abusive relationship and they mention the abuse to someone, shaming them for being in that relationship and subjecting themselves to that behavior is unlikely to fix anything. Offering them compassion and support and safe alternatives is demonstrably more effective. Shame is likely to make them more defensive about their choices or stop talking about the abuse they suffer entirely, especially if the issue is not entirely in their control. I think similar behavior and responses would be elicited in the case of working relationships as well.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

You're talking individual, not group psychology. Chances are that in a group someone will laugh, others chuckle, and the person directly addressed will not be individually offended because you made a joke. Deflated, maybe, yes, but that's par for the course when bragging. Which is what OP's post talks about. If you go all "dear, dear" on people doing that they'll definitely be offended.