Simplex is pretty nice, but to me XMPP already does all that you described, and metadata isn't that important to me. Plus XMPP has better clients for mobile and desktop
this post was submitted on 07 Oct 2024
59 points (88.3% liked)
Privacy
32424 readers
307 users here now
A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.
Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.
In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.
Some Rules
- Posting a link to a website containing tracking isn't great, if contents of the website are behind a paywall maybe copy them into the post
- Don't promote proprietary software
- Try to keep things on topic
- If you have a question, please try searching for previous discussions, maybe it has already been answered
- Reposts are fine, but should have at least a couple of weeks in between so that the post can reach a new audience
- Be nice :)
Related communities
much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
For 1:1 and small groups, XMPP is not as convenient + not as secure
but why isnt it secure? if you know that the other person is using the same version of omemo it is secure. and if you are self-hosting it, meta-data is no issue either
Actually xmpp is low on metadata compared to matrix which has to replicate a bunch of metadata everywhere. SimpleX look interesting, though by not being federated (considered by simpleX a privacy feature) whether you like their client or not. Just so you know privacyguides has explained why they don't advertise xmpp as privacy oriented, and the reason is not that it isn't, it's simply that given it's federated, they consider some clients are not as compliant or up to date, which is up to the user to select on XMPP, and also up to the user to file bugs against their preferred client or even contribute it with changes.
My stance is that XMPP and Matrix are only private if you self host and don't federate. That really cuts down on who may want to use them, but it can be great for a small community, company, or family assuming you can get everyone to buy in.
thank you for the info. that clears up some doubts I had with xmpp :)
My battery life & ability self-host on low-spec hardware is pretty convenient. When I talk to my bud on their own self-hosted, low-spec instance, the TLS+OMEMO is pretty secure since we don’t have to trust some third-party server provider with data/metadata.
Right, and completely agreed with that, but I think that SimpleX is just better in most cases (not on battery life for now), as it could be also self hosted
There is a cost aspect of self-hosting that one has to comtemplate. I haven’t looked at SimpleX hosting, but if it’s anything like Matrix on resources, it isn’t accessible or feasible even if it is possible.
I host a Simplex server, it is not that bad in terms of resources. My smp server is around 90 MB RAM and XFTP is 30 MB. Could be better, but still would run without problem on low-end hardware.
What about the storage & network costs?
I have not checked both, but seems like both are insignificant. From what I understand, the messages and files are only stored on the server until reception.
How dare you criticize some 90's protocol no one uses
Then keep using it. However, no one else is using in my experience and there so many apps and servers I can't keep it all straight. Not user friendly at all.
If you like and have people using it then that's fine but I wouldn't start using in 2024. There are much nicer systems.
This speadsheet desperately needs the first column and row anchored, it's unreadable as is because you can't see what you're looking at.
As far as users go, add the features people are used to from Telegram and other messengers, and make it just as easy to use and it'll probably start pulling in more people. A big one IMO is good discoverability; like an easy to remember username that I can share, and ability to pull in my contacts and automatically add people who are already on it. As well as good group chat and channel support with good moderation tools.
Some things would be easy to improve on too, Telegrams sticker packs for example are a bit of a pain to update, so adding that feature but making it better would be nice.
Also easy sync to other devices without needing to manually backup/restore chats would be a huge plus for any of the alternative messenger apps.
How can i start? I mean its not like i have any friends on simpleX so whats the point? Does it have public groups that one can search for?
From SimpleX creator, it doesn't scale well with groups >50 ppl, so it is not going to be your Telegram/Facebook/social media replacement.
Well Matrix exists so you can always fire up a Matrix server
I think you meant xmpp
No, I meant Matrix. I don't know anyone who uses XMPP. There are a lot of people on Matrix.
Unable to decrypt message.
Unable to decrypt message.
Unable to decrypt message.
Unable to decrypt message.
Unable to decrypt message.
Did you use the Element front end and then clear web storage? Also the unable to encrypt only applies to encrypted group chats which aren't the default
Yes, and yes.
I wouldn't use SimpleX for public and large groups, only for small and 1:1, use SimpleX with your friends ans family
I wouldn't use SimpleX for public and large groups, only for small and 1:1, use SimpleX with your friends ans family
I love that this post was like four rows below this one on my front page:
simplex rules!
SimpleX ftw. I've been using it for about six months, but I've really started using it much more often recently.
can you run it on multiple devices and have them all synced? how about chat export in a readable format?
No and no. It's basically everything is stored locally.
You can back it up. Also you can switch to a different device with a button but you can only use one device at a time.
Yeah, the question was if it could be used in multiple devices
At the same time?
That's what I understood by the question, yes.
It can run as long as your on the same network as the other instance and for the chat export in readable format, I actually don't know, sorry
You can only use one device at a time. However you can toggle between mobile and desktop
That rules it out for me then. I like to use XMPP+OMEMO with about 4-5 clients which I can continue a conversation with at any time. Main mobile, tablet, desktop, other desktop, and backup mobile which is usually switched off. (Even if a device has been missing for too long and run out of OMEMO keys, the keys sync up again once I send a message with it.)
I like how clean Simplex Chat is
Jami is good if you cant local network sync. Basically the same as simplex but more steps to make a new account.
Right
Jami is good if you cant local network sync. Basically the same as simplex but more steps to make a new account.