this post was submitted on 15 Jan 2025
302 points (84.3% liked)

Privacy

32740 readers
2532 users here now

A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.

Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.

In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.

Some Rules

Related communities

much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

In an unexpected mask off "secure" email and VPN provider Proton took the stance of siding with the fascist MAGA Reps. Proton's services are no option for me and many others any longer. Let's collect and discuss alternatives (E2E encrypted email and VPN) here πŸ”πŸ‘‡

Always try to provide:

-Server location (jurisdiction)

-Governance

-Integrity/trustworthiness/transparency

-User experience/ease of use (grade 1 to 10, lets take Proton as a benchmark with an 8)

-Pricing and links

If you know alternative setups, feel free to share, too.

#ProtonExodus

Background: https://lemmy.ca/comment/13913116

Edit:typo

(page 2) 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] swordgeek@lemmy.ca 69 points 9 hours ago (2 children)

Wow!

Of all companies, this is one I didn't expect.

Damn.

[–] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 28 points 8 hours ago (3 children)

Why would this be unexpected?

Proton already handed over the IP of a climate protester to authorities several years ago, while boasting that they had a no log policy.

https://therecord.media/protonmail-forced-to-collect-an-activists-ip-address-in-police-investigation

Every time, in the past few years, that I bring this up, everyone just acts like I'm setting an impossible standard and no alternative exists.

Proton has been shady for years.

[–] Zadhu@slrpnk.net 16 points 7 hours ago

From reading that article it looks like they were only using and able to log the IP address when the person logged in to their protonmail account specifically - not VPN.

They even state that VPNs can not be forced to log under the same legal order and are treated differently so in this case it seems the activists were not using the VPN while accessing their emails.

Although I dont agree with even the logging of the email IP, it appears like the user shot themselves in the foot like that other case where someone used their real name in the username and that obviosly has to be logged in some way.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 37 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

the good news is this is a lesson to never trust any entity whose role in the world is to accumulate capital

[–] xapr@lemmy.sdf.org 18 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

What's insane is that didn't Proton just recently announce they were converting to a non-profit?

Yes, they did: https://proton.me/blog/proton-non-profit-foundation

Yea, and Andy Yen is only one of five members on the board of the Non-Profit organization, so you'll just have to gamble that everyone else isn't this weird (if you still want to continue using Proton services, that is, your choice πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈ).

[–] bleistift2@sopuli.xyz 71 points 9 hours ago (3 children)

Phew! For a moment I thought you were talking about the steam compatibility thingy.

[–] sunzu2@thebrainbin.org 27 points 9 hours ago

If that proton goes nazi, I am going straight to the farm

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] red@lemmy.zip 8 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (5 children)

using services based on the ceo's political leaning instead of actual features and policies of that service? that's dumb, tell me when that political leaning reflects in polices of proton then we can talk

load more comments (5 replies)
[–] lazzerot@startrek.website 9 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (2 children)

Protonmail has been my main email provider for the past 7 years, and unless its CEO decides to sell it to Trump or Musk I honestly don't see how his stupid private or not so private opinions are worth the hassle of changing my email for the million things I use my main and all the other emails I registered with Protonmail.
Most rich people have very dubious or outright awful political opinions and unless you're rich enough to have someone build you an alternative or deconnected enough from society/only exist in programmer circles and are able to live entirely on FOSS software I don't see why the average user should care about the CEO's political stance. Maybe that's my ignorant opinion as a European, but would you stop using Linux if you found out Linus Torvalds secretly loves Windows? Probably not.

[–] raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world 6 points 6 hours ago (4 children)

Your analogy/ example is fucked up and beyond stupid. Protonmail is hosted by the organization. Linus has no access to the Linux systems in the world. Also, thousands have contributed to the Linux ecosystem.

load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 19 points 8 hours ago (4 children)

Mullvad is supposed to be a safe and secure VPN.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] BananaTrifleViolin@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago (3 children)

As a Brit, I'm not offended by the Proton CEO's post. I don't like Donald Trump BUT I do like that he has hired someone who should be tough on tech anti-trust moves. This is very important.

Americans can be obsessed with their electoral system, but the rest of us don't have to pretend to support the Democrats or Republicans. I don't necessarily agree with all of Andy Yen's take regarding the two parties, but I'm not offended enough by it to boycott Proton, certainly not based on one tweet. I can also see the pragmatic benefit to his position by massaging trumps well known fragile ego.

[–] ShotDonkey@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago

Was there any urge (as if you can be urged at all to bootlick a rightwing asshole) to make these statements? No. Yet he did it.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Horsey@lemmy.world 5 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

In all seriousness, I genuinely feel like the demographics of those making over 250K/year outside of Silicon Valley (proton is from Switzerland which is a center-right country), and outside of the arts industries, is probably bare minimum of lib-center, and probably most likely to be at least fiscally conservative, if not socially as well. Those kind of people are more concerned with maintaining their financial position than the issues plaguing the income classes that the individual has graduated out of.

I don’t think you’re going to find many CEOs that aren’t at least a little right of center or self serving in their business interests.

Getting to the top 1% income bracket is a lot easier than maintaining that financial position.

[–] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 13 points 7 hours ago (6 children)

Before you decide to go back to Google or close your account, keep in mind that Proton became a non profit organization with the main mission of protecting your privacy. And as a non profit, they're not trying to profit off of you in any way.

Going back to Google is the worst solution you can use. Remember that Google donated $1 million to Trump's inauguration fund. Google also doesn't care about your privacy. On the contrary, they're selling your data and using it against you.

While the Proton CEO may be a nut case, he's only praising the choice that Trump made as the candidate for the antitrust department. While that's understandably stupid since I don't believe Trump is going up stick up for the little guy now that he's got Musk and Zuck in his pocket, at least he didn't actively donated and enabled Trump either personally or through his platform and spread misinformation.

Think about it.

At least with proton, the fact that you're different, that you're 2SLGBTQ+, is safe. Or at least substantially safer than Google.

[–] ShotDonkey@lemmy.world 22 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

They have doubled down officially with their official Mastodon account https://mastodon.social/@protonprivacy/113833073219145503 I therefore consider this official opinion of Proton. Focussing on one aspect and completely ignoring the bigger picture of a luming fascist period in the most militarized economy of the world is just inacceptable. Proton just could have kept their mouth shut, but they decided not to.

[–] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 6 points 6 hours ago

This is extremely disappointing. :(

[–] lukecooperatus@lemmy.ml 11 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

Why are there so many responses like this, saying not to go back to Google? The OP didn't even mention Google as an option they were considering. I've seen zero discussion in any of the other posts around the fediverse where people have expressed any desire to use Google because of this. Why would anyone think that users who had already moved to Proton would find Google acceptable as an alternative right now?

This just feels like you're trying to discourage actual conversation about alternatives by acting like the only options are Proton or Google, so we all ought to shut up and sit down.

Also, if you think merely becoming a non-profit means a corporation can never exploit people and isn't interested in making money off of it's customers, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

[–] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 8 points 7 hours ago

Because I looked at the discussion threads for this post and I saw a few early comments where people mentioned they would go back or stick with Google.

I'm not trying to shut down or discourage any discussion. Just pointing out to the people who said they'd go back that it's not the best solution.

[–] jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world 8 points 7 hours ago

Yes, proton is about ten thousand times better than google, even with this board member's stupid fully factored in.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] AnAmericanPotato@programming.dev 17 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

Tuta.com is similar to Proton Mail + Calendar.

  • Location: Germany

  • Governance: Private GmbH (German corporation, similar to an American LLC)

  • Integrity/trustworthiness/transparency: Better than Proton IMHO. All their apps are open source and available on F-Droid. They encrypt email headers (unlike Proton, who are weaselly about this in their marketing materials).

  • User Experience: Ehhhh...6? I'm not in the best position to compare because I do not have a premium plan, so I am not able to examine features like inbox rules/filters. Much like Proton, it doesn't support full-text email search unless you have it cache your entire mailbox locally (either via the web site or app). They do not support POP or IMAP, but do offer their own desktop and mobile apps.

  • Pricing: €3/month for 20GB, €8/month for 500GB. https://tuta.com/pricing

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] hddsx@lemmy.ca 21 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

I don’t use proton, but I would be grateful if you could share a link on how Proton sided with fascists.

Also, I use Mullvad for VPN and I host my own email

[–] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 31 points 9 hours ago (2 children)

They didn't exactly "side with fascists", but Andy Yen, one of the board members on the Non-Profit that owns Proton AG, has very bad takes on politics, and just has a right-wing "Libertarian" vibe.

https://x.com/andyyen/status/1864436449942110660 (https://archive.is/l1WYU)

https://x.com/andyyen/status/1812442643726537182 (https://archive.is/ADc8C)

[–] hddsx@lemmy.ca 18 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

Huh, I wasn’t very concerned with your links… but I googled and found out Andy Yen is the founder. That’s alarming

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 19 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (1 children)

True, but Tim Brenners-Lee is also on the board, and he historically has generally good takes on tech and politics.

People are often unwilling to go against the positions of the guy who created the World Wide Web.

[–] jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world 8 points 7 hours ago

If his presence at proton is the old thing holding back the stupid, then it isn't as good a company as we has been thinking.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments
view more: β€Ή prev next β€Ί