Explain Like I'm 5 (ELI5)

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ELI5: What exactly is Usenet and why do I need a provider? (self.eli5)

submitted 6 days ago by Allero to c/eli5@lemmy.world

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Some people describe it as a network, some people describe it as a forum, yet somehow we have providers, and at the same time Usenet is seen as anonymous despite having a proxy in the form of a provider...for someone grown way after the Usenet prime, this all doesn't make sense.

What is Usenet, actually? Is it a separate network? Is it layered on top of the Internet? If it's the latter, why do I need some Usenet provider and why does it need to retain information (and why doing it for as long as possible is desirable?). Please help me connect the dots here.

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[–] HappyTimeHarry@lemm.ee 16 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Usenet is many things, like email is smtp, or websites use http, usenet is nntp. I can explain mostly from a piracy aspect.

Some providers run servers which host archives that go back years, some host "binaries" (which can be stuff like software or movies) while others like google will only do text based content. The reason you need a provider is because storing decades worth of binary files takes a lot of space and that costs money.

The reason you want long retention is so you can find all the episodes of that show you want to watch that aired 10 years ago, or a movie that was last uploaded in 2015

Then there are usenet indexers like drunkenslug and nzb.su, they are similar to torrent trackers in that they have files with the information needed to locate a given binary file, most content is split into segments of 10s or 100s of mb

[–] Allero 3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Thanks!

Can I directly connect to someone on Usenet without using a provider? Or is it a necessary step? What do I lose? Are providers just storage bins for something that is not currently seeded by anyone else? Or do I fundamentally misunderstand something?

[–] HappyTimeHarry@lemm.ee 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Its not peer to peer, you dont connect to a single poster, you need a provider. They arent "just" storage bins, usenet was primarily designed to be used for group discussions, but over time it became more used for piracy.

[–] Allero 1 points 6 days ago

Guess it has to do with the way Usenet is organized, with all those newsgroups and stuff? Because I have hard time wrapping my head around why exactly you can't "connect to a single poster".

[–] KillerTofu@lemmy.world 13 points 6 days ago (2 children)

Usenet is a global, decentralized discussion platform and the world's oldest digital social network, established in 1980. It's similar to an online forum where users can post and read messages, called "articles", in newsgroups focused on specific topics. Think of newsgroups as forums or subreddits. Usenet predates the World Wide Web and has been continuously operating since 1979.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet

[–] Treczoks@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago

Those were the times. I wrote a Usenet client named Gobelin back then, for VMS on a VAX 11/780.

[–] Allero 1 points 6 days ago

Thanks!

[–] thedeadwalking4242@lemmy.world 3 points 6 days ago (1 children)

So the “internet” as the public knows it is a web of inter connected websites. But the “internet” in a more technical sense, is all the lower tier wires and stuff that transport data using. The TCP/ip protocol. The actual data being transmitted on TCP/IP can be anything. It can be http like websites use or smtp data like emails use. Your ISP will transmit basically any kind of data for you. Usenet is like the regular internet but it using a different protocol. To access the network you need to go through a provider. Think of it like if you had to pay to use Google. But that’s just kinda the super simplified basics.

You -> http -> internet -> http -> Google

You -> nncp -> internet -> nncp -> Usenet provider

[–] Allero 1 points 6 days ago (1 children)

Thanks, it makes a lot of sense, but if it's just a protocol, then why again I need some kind of provider instead of just connecting to others straight away?

[–] CrayonRosary@lemmy.world 3 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

Back in the day, your ISP would have a Usenet server. Maybe they still do. I haven't looked into it in a very long time. It would be something like nntp://news.timewarner.com, and you would add that to your email client of all things, because newsgroups were glorified email lists. Your email address was your identity, and you sent messages to groups. The protocol was different, but you were basically sending emails. Then your message would be shared to news servers all over the world. A giant peer-to-peer network. It worked a lot like Lemmy, sort of. Not really.

If ISPs do host news servers nowadays, it's going to be censored and definitely won't be hosting petabytes of binary files. If they host binary files at all, they won't be particularly fast to download, and will probably be limited to images and such.

A modern usenet provider costs money per month because they host all of those files, with very long retention times. Years and years. Plus they have insane download speeds. Do you have gigabit fiber at home? Cool! Enjoy downloading these files with a full speed direct download. That's what the provider gives you. Access to the "real" Usenet, for a long time, with excellent download speeds. This costs real money, so you pay for this service per month. Providers have different tiers of service, too, with various limits. It's like picking a phone plan.

Second, you need an indexer. A different website that tells you where the files are. Otherwise, good luck finding them. Imagine trying to find a specific meme on Lemmy by just browsing all the meme communities and scrolling and scrolling. The indexer is a search engine for these files, neatly organized categories. Indexer websites cost a one-time small fee per year.

You download "nzb" files from the indexer. Those small files contain a long list of all the files to go download. You see, every binary file available for download is split into dozens of small RAR files, or some other format. So, thing.rar, thing.r00, thing.r01 thing.r02, etc. The nzb file contains metadata for the download plus a link to each of those files in whatever newsgroup they are in. I imagine whole seasons of individual episodes can be stuffed into a single nzb file, too, but I'm just guessing.

You use bespoke software to manage the downloading and rebuilding of all of those pieces. An nzb file will open in this program to manage the download. There are FOSS ones available, I'm sure, but also paid ones, and even ones for phones.

(If I got parts of this wrong, please forgive me. I have never used any of these things. Well except for newsgroups way back in the 90s.)

[–] Allero 1 points 6 days ago

Thanks, it kiiiinda starts making sense!

[–] CheeryLBottom@lemmy.world 0 points 6 days ago

Usenet is the first thing I used after CompuServe. Gaming grips of all of all types, books....