But.... Do we really expect Threads users to make their Mastodon-type tweets even show up on Reddit-style Lemmy?
this post was submitted on 07 Jul 2023
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They'd only show up if someone on the instance started subscribing to them, if I have understood how that all works correctly. And who would do such a silly thing?
And with Threads Algorithm controlling what you see, it's not even clear that subscribing would show you them. This is a much more meaningful decision for the Mastodon instances.
What are you on about? Thread’s algorithm only affects what you see in the threads app home page. If they federate fully/properly it’ll operate no different than mastodon does now.
Yes, I'm talking about what Threads users may see. It's not clear how the Threads Algorithm will evaluate and prioritize showing Mastodon toots, but even less clear how it will prioritize message-board-like Lemmy content. It may not ever show them because it's very possible it will either filter or devalue non-microblogging post types to fit with its native format. Whether or not they technically Federate is only half the question because they have the Algorithm deciding what you actually see.
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So can Facebook harvest our data even though we aren't on their instance?
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Everyone here saying lemmy.world should do the same should just move on to lemmy.ml.
That's the glory of federation, baby!
Or any of the many other instances that will not federate with Meta. You can still see the same content from any of them.
Yep. I'm hearing lemmy.ml doesn't have an easy sign-up process, so another instance may be better for some.
There were 4 questions and one of them was 6 minus 2. It was easier than convincing recaptcha that I'm not a robot.
Fuck you, recaptcha, there was definitely a motorcycle in that pic :)
Don't see why people are doing this. You'll just damage the fediverse and discourage meta from federating, granting them their own walled garden that you cannot use without selling your soul to them, which is going to dissuade people from using Mastodon as what's the point if people on threads cannot see what they have
Accounts can be on instances which are federated with Threads, and on instances which are defederated from Threads. A single person can have both types of accounts.
Defederation has effects which many users find desirable. The same suite of effects is not available on a user level, and would require each user to manually take action individually.
So from a feature perspective, it is necessary that some instances defederate. This provides better service for users who find it desirable.
There will also be instances who federate. People can use accounts there if they prefer that.
TL;DR: We don't need a consensus. Instances can choose their federation policy. People can choose which instance(s) they use.
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't understand the point in defederating. Aren't you just cutting down on the amount of content you can see? As a user I'd personally prefer to pick and choose what I can see.
What's the actual upside in doing it? Obviously I can see why you'd want defederating from say a far right instance, but in general it seems like only downsides.
I'm new to all this so maybe I'm missing a crucial bit of information.
Aren’t you just cutting down on the amount of content you can see?
Plus, you reduce the amount of content they can see (while logged in). Quoting myself from a similar context (It is about a community on another instance, which is federated with Threads, while your home instance defederated from Threads):
- You wont see posts or comments from Threads users in that remote community. You also won't see reactions to those activities from anyone, anywhere. It's as if comment chains started by Threads users don't exist.
- Threads will not see posts and comments from you, even if done in communities from instances which are federated with Threads.
There are also more subtle implications. For example, some might find the situation in remote communities which have both federated and defederated qualities confusing (Imagine "see this comment section" when different users see different versions). This might be a reason to avoid these communities, to only visit communities on other instances, which follow your personal policy of de/federating Threads.
The same is probably true for votes. If your instance defederates Threads, you don't see their votes, and they don't see yours.
Defederation in this context sends a political signal, which some people find important.
This was not meant as a comprehensive answer, but as counter-examples to your core question ("Aren't you just ...").
As a user I’d personally prefer to pick and choose what I can see.
You can do that either way, as explained in my previous comment. No matter on which side of the argument you are, use an account on an instance which has a similar policy. You can have many, you can use many. Of course, most people want to use not more than one, which is why they try to make sure their instance's policy reflects their personal preference, instead of making sure their instance choice reflects their personal preference. In reality, we see both (people influencing their instance, and people choosing their instance), and both is fine.
Further, we need instances which defederate from Threads, so people can choose this option.
I’m new to all this so maybe I’m missing a crucial bit of information.
I get you. I'm also missing a comprehensive, compact list of consequences.
Isn't it creating a situation of Reddit power mods on steroids? It's easy to say "well go and make accounts on multiple instances", but it's creating additional barriers to entry that a lot of people won't understand and frankly is kind of irritating as a user.
I feel like people aren't taking the consequences seriously and that defederating needs to be viewed as like a nuclear option that's avoided unless absolutely necessary. That's what I get from the additional information you provided.
This place will become completely unusable in the future if the good will dies out and large instances decide to defederate from each other to try and become the "top" instance, especially as more and more casual users move over.
Isn’t it creating a situation of Reddit power mods on steroids?
Not sure, how do you see that? Isn't the ability to "vote with your feet" putting a limit on how powerful they can become?
a lot of people won’t understand and frankly is kind of irritating as a user
That's true. We need to become better at communicating and explaining these situations. I plan to use the wiki more. To have one comprehensive source of truth, which can be linked to, instead of partial explanations scattered across comment sections.
But even then, a distributed model is probably inherently more complex and hader to understand than a centralized solution. The benefit is more resilience against power-hungry tendencies.
Realistically most people aren't going to make their own instance, so you kind of have to rely on the good will of others.
Purely as an example, let's say that Lemmy world decides they no longer want to be federated with ML because of the Meta situation. If you're on either world or ML now you've lost access to huge sections of Lemmy. This could basically go on forever, so any instance that wants to remain neutral can be locked out of either both or one of them as they keep defederating from instances until the whole thing becomes a walled garden, basically the same as if you upset a power mod on Reddit and lose access to huge sections of the site, except it's worse on here because you wouldn't even be able to lurk.
I guess you could just have multiple accounts, but we could easily see a situation where you need like 10 accounts just to see the most popular instances, which is obviously ridiculous and not practical unless you're terminally online.
It seems like a pretty huge flaw in the system, to be honest. Theoretically it's a good idea, but as more and more people flock to the large instances it seems like it's only a matter of time before the power plays start to happen.
Is there anything at all to stop that happening? It's seems inevitable to me that eventually the whole thing will fall apart if people abuse the system.
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lemmy.ml4lyfe.
Is this a new instance?
~~Fairly. It was made right after the first big Reddit wave to accomodate for the influx of new users.~~
Sorry, got mixed up with lemmy.world. No, lemmy.ml is one of the oldest instances, allong with lemmygrad.ml.
I think they’re joking that “lemmy.ml4lyfe” (written like that) is apparently a new instance.
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