Let's say, for example's sake, that 52% of the people voting tend left, while 48% tend right, and let's also remove all the state, gerrymandering and grand elector bullshit for a moment (I know, so much bullshit)

If everyone were to only vote for either the Democratic Party or the Republican Party, come November, the Democratic Party would win with 52% of the votes and secure the presidency. Now let's assume that there's a third party, let's call it "The True Left Party" and let's say they can have a very successful campaign and secure 5% of the votes, which would come from the left leaning side of the voting pool, aka from those who would have otherwise voted for the Democratic Party. Now come November the results would look like this: Republicans still at 48%, Democrats now at 47% and True Left at 5%, so now the Republican Party wins and Trump becomes president.

This is how voting for a third party only helps your enemy. If I were the Republicans, I'd be turbo donating to any left party right now. Divide et Impera as the Romans said.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

You don't understand the basics of a First Past The Post system.

I do, and asserting that I must not because I disagree with your analysis is juvenile and insulting.

Let's say, for example's sake, that 52% of the people voting tend left, while 48% tend right, and let's also remove all the state, gerrymandering and grand elector bullshit for a moment (I know, so much bullshit)

Tons of bs, sure, but let's go with that.

If everyone were to only vote for either the Democratic Party or the Republican Party, come November, the Democratic Party would win with 52% of the votes and secure the presidency. Now let's assume that there's a third party, let's call it "The True Left Party" and let's say they can have a very successful campaign and secure 5% of the votes, which would come from the left leaning side of the voting pool, aka from those who would have otherwise voted for the Democratic Party. Now come November the results would look like this: Republicans still at 48%, Democrats now at 47% and True Left at 5%, so now the Republican Party wins and Trump becomes president.

No, if 52% voted for a Left party, PSL or the Greens would win. The 5% for the "true left party" isn't coming from the liberals that vote for and support the DNC. You're assuming leftists to automatically vote with the DNC, which is a false narrative. The DNC doesn't represent the Left in any capacity, nor do they pander to Leftist voters.

This is how voting for a third party only helps your enemy. If I were the Republicans, I'd be turbo donating to any left party right now. Divide et Impera as the Romans said.

The DNC are the enemy of Leftists as well, neither the GOP nor the DNC represent Leftists, which is why your previous paragraph doesn't add up.

[–] Rinox@feddit.it 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Ok, let's try again. Those who like the left usually don't vote for the GOP, agree?

Then, for them, the options are three, either vote Dems, vote third party or don't vote. Now, if, like in the example of before, these people are that 5%, do you agree that not voting or voting a third party will result in the GOP winning, while voting for the Dems will result in the Dems winning?

If you think that the Dems and the GOP are one and the same, then fine. If instead you'd rather the Dems win, then do you agree that these people should vote Dems rather than do nothing or vote for a third party, which would lead to a GOP win?

Btw, this is why there's no third party in a fptp system and there can never be one. Your votes are better spent on the candidate you dislike less rather than on the one you actually like, because voting for the one you like will inevitably result in the one you really dislike going to power.

Edit:btw watch that cgp grey video, it's really good. He's really good in general tbh, great guy, very good at explaining.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 months ago

Ok, let's try again. Those who like the left usually don't vote for the GOP, agree?

Yes.

Then, for them, the options are three, either vote Dems, vote third party or don't vote. Now, if, like in the example of before, these people are that 5%, do you agree that not voting or voting a third party will result in the GOP winning, while voting for the Dems will result in the Dems winning?

Sure.

If you think that the Dems and the GOP are one and the same, then fine. If instead you'd rather the Dems win, then do you agree that these people should vote Dems rather than do nothing or vote for a third party, which would lead to a GOP win?

Is there a material difference that results from what I personally feel? Shouldn't your question be "how can we get the 5% to vote for the DNC?" The Dems are right-wingers and enablers of fascism, if they took strong stances against it and pandering towards Leftists then they would see more Leftist support. The fault lies with the Dems for not analyzing their own positions properly, if they want Leftist support.

Btw, this is why there's no third party in a fptp system and there can never be one. Your votes are better spent on the candidate you dislike less rather than on the one you actually like, because voting for the one you like will inevitably result in the one you really dislike going to power.

I understand that the US is not a democracy, that's why more than voting, it's important to organize and build up dual power.