I know this topic has been discussed a lot before, but in my opinion there is no simple answer to this question.
Lately, I have been a bit disappointed with my Nikon DSLR kit (D3200) and thus I've been considering an upgrade. I got it many years ago, and it is undoubtedly a great, affordable camera that produces great images. I've had lots of fun with it and I can't complain about its performance when shooting -- given ideal conditions. When I am shooting more challenging subjects, however, I feel a bit hindered by my camera body/system. The points that bother me the most are:
- Size. The D3200 is a very nice, compact, and lightweight DSLR, but it is still relatively big compared to modern cameras. It won't fit in a jacket pocket even without an attached lens. More current cameras with a higher image quality can be smaller than it is (but heavier). The situation is even worse for higher-end DSLRs.
- Autofocus. Again, the D3200 is a fantastic camera if you are just using the center focus spot using the optical viewfinder and nothing else. Live view (contrast) focus is straight up unusable, and there are only 11 (phase) focus points or so if using the viewfinder. At least that's the case with "ordinary" Nikon lenses. I don't know how it performs with higher-end lenses, like the Sigma Art line.
- "Low light" performance. I can't bump the ISO significantly before image degradation becomes obvious. Low light in quotes because that's the case even in fairly well-lit situations. Occasionally, I like to print on medium-sized paper (A3+), and if I need anything above ISO 400 to properly expose the image, it won't look that good printed. Of course, I can always stick to printing bright images large and save the "low light" scenes to smaller prints, so this isn't really my main concern.
- Custom controls. I wish I could customize the camera settings a bit more. For example, on my camera, the back button AF/AE can be set to lock the AF/AE or as a back button focus. But in image preview mode, the same button "locks" the image so it can't be deleted. Thus, you need to quit image preview before using that button to trigger autofocus again. I would like to have a dedicated AF button so I can shoot straight from image preview if the opportunity arises. Another example of customization I can't do: settings like auto-ISO and shutter speed can't be capped/limited to a certain range. Let's say I want to use auto-ISO but prevent it from going above 400 to avoid too much noise (and decrease shutter speed but risk shaky images). Or the opposite: prevent the shutter speed in aperture priority mode from going below 1/100 to avoid shaky images and then change ISO instead. Well, I can't do either at the moment. Again, a nice feature to have, but totally something I can live with.
From what I have seen, cameras nowadays have gotten pretty good and they do look like a significant upgrade from 10-15 year old bodies. I guess all popular, entry-level, modern cameras (2019-) solve at least 3 of the 4 problems I listed above, so I don't think I can go wrong with any big brand. However, I'm having a hard time deciding with so many options and sensor size/formats available. My options so far are:
- Nikon Z. Since I am already familiar with Nikon F lenses, I have read a lot about them and I know the strengths and weaknesses of many of those. That means I likely won't be disappointed if I switch to another system, and I want a certain lens that doesn't exist, or the optical performance is poor, or it is prohibitively expensive. The Z50, Z5, and Z6 all look amazing, and I can pick or switch between a full frame or cropped sensor easier than I would if I was stuck with a micro four thirds. They are more affordable than Sony.
- Sony. They seem to be fantastic cameras, with great image quality and features. Sigma and Tamron options for Nikon are likely available for Sony as well. I'm just slightly afraid that lenses might be too expensive for what they offer. Their cameras look super compact and pocketable, which is a huge plus to me. Full frame (A7iii) or cropped (A6400) are also both available for a seamless transition.
- Olympus. I think it is impossible to beat micro four thirds in size and affordability. It is perhaps the only system where you can get a wide angle, portrait, fast prime, macro, and telephoto that you can take everywhere in a small bag while not costing you a fortune. They also have pretty nice features, such as the "live mode"/"smartphone photography", where you can get a frame that was captured slightly before the shutter button was pressed. This must be so cool for wildlife. Olympus stabilization is also highly regarded, with people claiming it to be "gimbal-like". The E-M5 iii looks very appealing. My main concern is that I've never used a micro four thirds before and thus I don't know how much I'm letting go in image quality. I already feel that the dynamic range I get with the D3200 rocking a larger, cropped sensor could be better.
I am not considering:
- Canon. I completely disagree with their "no third party lenses" policy. To me, that is unacceptable.
- Fujifilm. There are barely any telephoto options and they are one of my favorite lens types to use.
- Panasonic. I like what I read about the Lumix cameras, but they seem to be behind Olympus regarding micro four third still-focused cameras (apart from the G9). And I don't know much about the L-mount.
- Hasselblad, Leica, etc. Too expensive. I want something that I can take with me everywhere and not worry too much if it gets damaged.
I would appreciate if you all could help me figure this out! Especially people who have used more than one modern mirrorless system or have recently transitioned from DSLR to mirrorless. Many thanks in advance!
Edited to add:
I forgot to describe how exactly I use my camera. I mostly shoot:
- "Lifestyle" photos, like something cool I've seen while biking to work, walking in the park, visiting museums, etc.
- Hiking, biking, backpacking photos, like landscape, close ups, macro, wildlife, etc.
- Birds of all sizes.
- Occasionally, street photography if there's some cool event going on.
- I do like to shoot video, so something that would be 4K capable would be great.
I've been watching an insane amount of M43 videos lately.
Right now, I kind of feel like that the performance beast (high image quality days) + pocket rangefinder (travel or daily carry) is a really attractive setup, like Lumix G9 plus GX85, or E-M1X plus E-M5 III. I also found that I can indeed get all the lenses that I want (with professional quality) for under $2k (wide kit, two fast primes, macro, telephoto). Yes, that whole setup would be really light and small, to the point where camera and two or three lenses can be inconspicuously carried around in pockets.
I don't want to spend a ton, but I also think that I should "go big or go home". I want to feel the improvement, but without breaking the bank. Basically, my options remain the same (E-M5 III, GX85, etc). I'm trying to find something close to ~$500, and I'll make a final decision after KEH pays me if they really are keeping my Nikon lenses.
That was honestly great, I'm impressed. I've seen macro photos people have taken on M43, and they look great all the way from wide-angle to telephoto range. I guess the deeper depth of field and image stabilization is a huge plus for handheld macro, even though a full frame setup (with a different lens) will clearly capture more light and push the ISO further (or use a flash).
Yes, I would aim for 450mm+ full frame equivalent. From experience, I feel like 450mm in full frame is great, 600mm isn't much of an upgrade, and 800mm is awesome (but heavy).
For Sony, the best I could do on a budget would be the Tamron 70-300mm ($500 new, say $350 used) and the Sigma 100-400mm ($850 new, say $600 used).
For M43, there's the Olympus 75-300mm ($550 new, say $400 used) and the Panasonic 100-300mm ($650 new, say $500 used).
Options aren't bad for either, considering crop factor, size, and price. I would say they are virtually tied, with APS-C having a slight edge on image quality and video autofocus, and M43 winning on either reach (considering the 70-300mm) or weight and bulk (considering the 100-400mm without the hood) .
I would probably get one of those "do-it-all" lenses you're talking about, as well. They would be great travel assets, I think. But to be honest, I'm unsure how much of an improvement that would be, considering that carrying a wide plus a telephoto lenses is no big deal anyway if they are M43.
Unfortunately, shops around me only rent full frame flagship legends, so I'm out of luck. There's a local Olympus "borrow our equipment for free for 4 days" program, though. But they only lend their newest releases. I couldn't find an option to borrow both an OM-5 body and an all-purpose lens. Tomorrow I'll call them and see if that's possible.
That's exactly why I'm hesitant to commit to one system or the other. I'm asking myself "do I really need something this light and tiny? Maybe I don't, perhaps my current setup is already small enough and I won't care much about a smaller camera. But maybe I do, and it will be a game changer when I realize it". The same thing for creepy Sony eye-tracking autofocus. Who knows if I will simply not care or absolutely love it. There's a possibility that I'll hate Panasonic contrast-only autofocus (I know it's straight up unusable on my Nikon D3200, while the D500 puts every other camera out there to shame). I might also not care the least and even forget that I don't have phase contrast AF. Well, the list goes on and on; IBIS, high-resolution mode, focus stacking, bracketing, flippy screen, yadda yadda yadda.
I guess I'll only find out when I pull the trigger on one of those. Options are too volatile right now, on all platforms: Craigslist, eBay, Roberts Camera, KEH, MPB, etc. I'll have consider my options carefully when I get my money from KEH.
What I've seen is,
I'll start with one of those bodes plus an all-purpose wide to mid range zoom and see how I like it for "everyday" stuff.
haha.. I feel you. I binge watch videos about stuff when I'm researching it.
I really couldn't come up with a "perfect camera" that covered every base... and honestly I think it's physically impossible for me. I like the feel of the larger full size DSLR bodies in hand and I like the little tiny M43... so having two makes the most sense for me. Since I'm fine with older bodies the prospect of getting two cameras for less than buying one new camera is appealing. Just a note.. the Lumix GX8 is an upgrade over the GX85 in a few ways without being THAT much bigger, so might look at that. I really leaned into picking a "system". I love my EM5II so far... but I know these lenses will work if I get a Lumix G9II or OM-1 later on so I feel better about investing. It's the same with my canon.. I've almost exclusively gotten EF glass so it can be used on a full frame body if I got one down the road. Practicality aside... I'm also just enjoying having different stuff with a different feel to mess around with so swapping systems (canon and olympus) is more fun than chore.
The EM5II is from 2015... and it's so feature packed that I'm still learning the toys in it. The IBIS alone is a game changer for some stuff. Also "focus peaking" which is giving you focus indicators on manual lenses opens up a lot of manual lenses that I might have avoided before... which are dirt cheap comparatively and often lighter weight.
Yeah, absolutely has to do with what you shoot for sure. I have a 70-300 and felt it just was always a little too short for me so the upgrade to the 150-600 was worth it.. even though it's like a bag of bricks to carry lol. But I'm using it for long distance wildlife, mostly birds. The size and weight are definitely something I have to consider before I leave the house though... so it will be interesting to see in a couple years if I fully transition to M43.
Doing some macro stuff you can just shoot. If you really get into macro shots though... you will want a flash, and a diffusion hood no matter what camera system you use. Since I didn't want to invest in a ton of new glass for the occasional macro shot, I picked up an inexpensive set of extension tubes for my canon setup to do macro shots. I'm considering getting a set for my Olympus as well. It's a nice "hack" because it turns any lens you have into a macro (to different degrees) for $20-40 total.
There are pros and cons with everything. A wide to telephoto is great for versatility but is going to be larger and you won't be able to get as fast of a lens overall. So it will come down to what you end up doing. If you end up getting a smaller camera that you carry everywhere, you might find you're leaning into one or another style and enjoying certain things more or less. I never liked prime lenses that much until I started carrying one around more but I have come to appreciate them. Also... with your discussion about low light, a prime lens will likely be good because they are so fast... especially once you start getting into the longer ranges. I really like this little 14-42mm but it's like f3.5-5.6... so I'm considering getting a really fast prime. 7artisans makes a 55mm f1.4 that's tempting me for around $130. Looks like it's on sale for $107 right now.. huh.. I'm not sure if I'm saving money or not because these are all starting to go into the "well... it's not THAT much" territory haha
I feel you there. I played that game for a loooong time. That's how I talked myself into getting an older body and investing in the lens system. I haven't regretted it yet, if that helps heh. I will point out that MPB has a 14 day return window... so if you get it and a week later you realize "wow.. this isn't it..." there are options. I don't know if there are any catches... I don't think so... but I'd make sure. I believe UPP does as well. No clue on KEH but their prices can't match MPB and UPP most of the time.
For me I ruled out everything but the "reputable" sites because I had a limited budget and if something like craigslist or ebay was a lemon it would be wasted money. With MPB and UPP... they warranty the items and are giving it a once over before they even list it... which gave me a lot more peace of mind. My camera body from UPP fell under a 1 year extended warranty even which was cool.
That's a good starting point. You might also consider a small prime lens like a 20mm or 35mm because they're so freakin' tiny and you can get a very fast lens in those sized for a reasonable price, they will be fun for shooting while wandering and if you go with a M43 you could probably stick it in a pocket (jack or cargo pants at least heh).
If you do finally decide on something I'd love to hear back and see how it goes. :) 📷
After careful consideration, I've got a used E-M1 Mark II from my local shop. I found it for fairly cheap ($300, plus $80 for 1 year warranty and tax). I decided to pass on the GX85 ($400 for body-only) and G85 ($500 including the general purpose kit lens + tele kit lens), despite the great price. Mostly because of my awful experience with contrast AF, where it was unusable compared to phase-detect AF on my D3200.
I found a Sony A6100+kit lens for $440 (amazing deal), but after looking into their lenses, I felt like they were too expensive to the point where it wasn't really worth it getting an entry-level camera. You know, with Sony you really need to go big or go home, unlike M43 where quality glass can be affordable. Basically, if I were to buy an $800 lens, it wouldn't make sense to skimp on the body. I still plan on getting a Sony in the future, but I'll probably save for a nice full frame (A7III, A7C, etc) or higher-end APS-C (A6600) instead.
I still don't own any M43 lenses to test the camera outside, but I'm inclined to get:
I will order the first lens now, and think things through for the next two possibilities. I honestly don't know how wide of an aperture I'll need yet, but I'll likely have an idea after feeling how the camera performs in low light with the kit lens.
I will keep you posted and update the original post soon relating my experience!
That's a great deal, very nice!
I feel you on that lumix series. I like the way they look and they have good reviews, but the prices are inflated right now for some reason which sucks.
Absolutely where I ended up. I knew I could get myself in at a certain point and then upgrade and swap things around later as needed, so it wouldn't be wasted. I've been getting really good deals on some quality budget glass for the olympus. I did end up picking up that olympus 40-150mm for $80 in what appears to be perfect condition from mpb. I can tell it's a more budget lens because of some of the stuff being plastic... but the clarity of the glass is absolutely exceptional for that price... and it weighs nothing. I'll include the first couple pictures I took with it here.
For a lens that is half the size of a can of soda, it has that 80-300mm FF equivalent. I can see why people rave about this one as a starting telephoto.
So just so you can see the size of things... That's a Rokinon / Samyang 7.5mm Fisheye, then the 40-150mm Telephoto, and the 14-40mm EZ on the camera next to my computer mouse.
The only thing about those super zooms like the 14-150 is that you can sometimes sacrifice quality. IDK that much about that lens, but I got myself a little camera bag that's like 12 x 8 x 5 with a cross body shoulder strap for idk.. $15-20 online. It holds the camera, the lenses, the flash, the cleaning kit, the filters, the batteries, the charger, and the filters... and there's still room left lol. So Carrying a bunch of M43 lenses is super easy and light weight. Doesn't make me feel like I need to worry about super zoom coverage like I did with my canon. Always boils down to what kind of photos you think you'll be taking. My tactic was to get the 14-42mm based on recommendations online as a "walking in the park lens" to get used to the camera and then I've just been filling in the blanks as I go. Going on MPB and UPP and just poking around there's so many fun lenses in that $60-150 range that it's almost impulse purchases at that point. I'm still considering some of the manual ones from 7artisans as well... even new they're cheap and I keep hearing how they're good. I'm considering picking up extension tubes for my EM5ii to do macro shots at some point like I did for my canon. I still kind of want that 7artisans 3.5mm fisheye but I absolutely don't need... but it seems fun.
It's been interesting for me. For fast action in lower light... there is no escaping needing good sensors and fast lenses. But because of the IBIS and some of the fun tools olympus puts in their camera software (live composite is so cool... pretty sure the one you're getting has that)... I have been able to take stills in lower light by using longer exposures and still getting cleaner shots. So I had to kind of reset how I thought about the exposure triangle settings.
I'm excited for you. Using this olympus from 2015 has convinced me that I absolutely want to get a modern flagship M43 camera at some point.
It is definitely true that money spent on Sony isn't wasted money. But at the same time, I was thinking, what's the point of spending $900 or more on lenses, and end up using them on an entry-level body? I don't know, it felt to me that it's better to save instead and get a higher-end camera and glass at once. Sony full frame must be so nice, especially for video, but I'll have to wait for now.
What I said above is definitely not the case for M43. I've just bought the tiny 14-42mm kit lens and it's set me back $500 for the whole initial setup (body + kit lens, including tax). With a longer telephoto (Olympus 75-300 or similar, ~$300), it will cover most of my use cases. For the price of either a nice Sony lens or body. And it's a camera that used to be their flagship model, so I feel good about the deal I got. It's very clear that you don't need to spend much to get the good stuff. Your hummingbird photo is a great example of the good stuff you can get out of a lens; affordable glass yielding a nice reach, sharpness, optical quality, and pleasant subject-background separation.
This is something that bugs me slightly about my 18-200 Nikon F DX (APS-C) lens. It is an awesome lens that I'm currently taking everywhere, but I wish it was sharper at times. I guess I will need to get used to switching lenses more often than I currently do. I also might want to experiment with sticking more to fixed focal lengths again. I noticed I always shoot at 28, 35, 50, 85, and very occasionally 105, 135mm full frame equivalent. 300mm or longer for wildlife. Needless to say, those are the most appealing focal ranges to most people and unsurprisingly, there are primes for all single focal length within this range. I'll look into my EXIF data and see what I can stick to initially, and try to zoom more with my feet. It will be an interesting journey!
Yes, I still need to figure out a setup that would work for me. I'm currently using a crossbody bag to carry my Nikon and it works great. I will look into a similar setup that can hold the M43 camera and two lenses or so, plus two filters (CPL and ND), a lightweight tripod, and backup battery and storage. I'll need to get an SD card for my new camera on Bestbuy, so I might look into what bags I can find there. For the card, I'm thinking about a Sandisk V30. I'm not sure about higher speeds, where I'll be able to record high-bitrate 4K, but it does sound appealing. I'll think about it while my lens is on its way.
I've read good things about the Laowa 7.5 f/2 and Lumix 9mm f/1.7. I might get one of those two in the future as a wide-angle low-light. Or maybe either a 17mm or 25mm prime, since 35-50mm full frame equivalent looks very pleasing to me, as it does to most people. We'll see how it goes with the kit lens. I feel like a wider fast prime would be more useful, though, given that it would serve two distinct purposes.
I'm sure it does, since Nikon's optical stabilization technology from 2006 already goes a long way. I still think I'll get a fast and wide prime, given that I'm very interested in wide apertures for astroscaping. But at the same time I'm not sure how well a M43 would perform capturing the northern lights, the milky way, or a meteor shower.
I'm pretty excited, too. I keep thinking about the new possibilities that might arise with this camera. This weekend, I shot a huge bull moose, 200mm cropped, handheld, optical stabilization only, on manual focus, at 1080p. The video turned out great, regardless. I am excited to try the same thing with IBIS, 4K, longer reach, and autofocus/focus peaking now!
Yeah, you definitely start to find the spots where you need to fill in the gaps. I find that the middle of the focal range is where I notice the biggest need for primes. That 14-42mm is handling most of the "wide to normal" for me right now since I'm not doing full on portraits with this particular camera... if I was I'd probably look into something in the 35mm or 55mm super fast lenses specifically for that task. With birding I've never been able to deal with primes since things change so quickly... I'm constantly using the full range of my 150-600m on my canon... they never stay in one spot lol. I think for a "walking around EDC lens" the 14-42mm has been fantastic. Olympus lenses have surprised me with their sharpness on non-Pro level stuff. Something to think about if you're considering fast lenses in a range and wanting "most bang for your buck" is to consider what the difference is between them in aperture. That 14-42mm at it's widest is f/3.5.... that's roughly 2 stops of light and not a ton of DoF in practice. At it's widest though it's f/5.6 so you're talking about 3.5 stops of light and a more noticeable change in DoF. I kept hearing about the 20mm primes and such.. but since I already had this zoom it felt like it wasn't worth it because I was getting most of what I wanted out of it. I'm still considering that 7artisans 55mm f/1.4 II for a portrait lens because it's gonna offer more of a difference from what I have, but I don't really need it right now.
I'm just rambling off on a tangent though... sounds like you've got it figured out. :)
I would also suggest start looking around for extra batteries. There are some better brands of 3rd party batteries that people seem to like. I've heard really mixed stuff about wasabi... some people love it and some people say it sucks. I've had good luck with neewer and kastar so far. Reason being two fold... 1. if you bought used the battery is also gonna be used and have lower life than it did when it was new and 2. mirrorless cameras use battery much faster than DSLR. I picked up a kastar 2 pack of batteries with a dual charger for my EM5ii for $22 total online. It's been really nice so I can either carry a spare or just swap the low battery for a new one when I get home and not have to wait for any charging. Also aftermarket chargers all seem to work off USB-C which is really convenient as well.
Well, yes. I do need to find the spots where I need to fill in the gaps and this will require some (significant) experience. I'm always reading a lot about stuff, and there's too much to learn regarding photography, still. For instance, I was trying to shoot the milky way this weekend under Bortle class 2 skies. The results were good, but not exactly great. I was thinking "yeah maybe a fast and wide lens will do". Now, I've read that people actually tend to stitch mid-focal length individual shots together instead. That's when photos actually look good, not so much when using those nice, fast, wide primes like the famous Rokinon or Simga lenses. Quite the surprise to me, honestly. That is just an example to illustrate my point, which is, there is usually a right(er) answer, but rarely an easy answer.
Regarding portraits, I used to like the strong bokeh of fast primes on a DSLR since my mom got a 50mm f1.8 for my old Canon years ago, but recently I've learned to appreciate short telephotos, too. 42mm gets you ~85mm equivalent, which is quite nice, just not very creamy at those apertures. I agree with your comment that it would only make sense if you were to get a 7artisans 55mm f1.4 or something.
Yes, I too would use the whole 150-600mm range on my Tamron/Nikon all the time for birds. I think it's a known fact that for wildlife one gets primes for increased sharpness, but knowing that you will have to crop very frequently. And when you crop to the equivalent increased focal length on the zoom, you don't get the increased sharpness advantage. It's mostly a budget game, I think.
Agreed. I'm looking into buying a kit from Kastar (2-4 batteries plus USB charger), which is selling for $40-$70. As a matter of fact, cheaper than a single OEM battery ($80). Go figure. On my Nikon, two batteries would last me 3-4 days outside while backpacking (in theory, ~1000 shots). The EM-1 Mark II is rated for 440 shots per battery, so I think the OEM plus 2 extra will suffice. USB-C charging is a must, because that's what I use to charge my action camera's batteries and other devices using my portable power bank. I think a kit from Kastar will do.
Also agree. On a day or half a day out shooting, I usually use half a battery, swap it when I get home, and let the other one charge. It's simply practical.
I'm waiting for my Olympus 14-42 electronic zoom to arrive, which should be here on Monday. My next steps will probably be the extra batteries. Then, a Lumix 100-300mm for wildlife (or equivalent). I'm (really) excited to see where this is gonna take me. Look at this, selling a couple of Nikon F lenses to fund a completely new system -- relatively small changes in practice and likely not changing the end result much, yet such a different approach to the hobby. I feel like this journey is going to be fun!