this post was submitted on 03 Sep 2024
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[–] mm_maybe@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 week ago (9 children)

What irks me most about this claim from OpenAI and others in the AI industry is that it's not based on any real evidence. Nobody has tested the counterfactual approach he claims wouldn't work, yet the experiments that came closest--the first StarCoder LLM and the CommonCanvas text-to-image model--suggest that, in fact, it would have been possible to produce something very nearly as useful, and in some ways better, with a more restrained training data curation approach than scraping outbound Reddit links.

All that aside, copyright clearly isn't the right framework for understanding why what OpenAI does bothers people so much. It's really about "data dignity", which is a relatively new moral principle not yet protected by any single law. Most people feel that they should have control over what data is gathered about their activities online, as well as what is done with those data after it's been collected, and even if they publish or post something under a Creative Commons license that permits derived uses of their work, they'll still get upset if it's used as an input to machine learning. This is true even if the generative models thereby created are not created for commercial reasons, but only for personal or educational purposes that clearly constitute fair use. I'm not saying that OpenAI's use of copyrighted work is fair, I'm just saying that even in cases where the use is clearly fair, there's still a perceived moral injury, so I don't think it's wise to lean too heavily on copyright law if we want to find a path forward that feels just.

[–] General_Effort@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago (3 children)

This has all been tested and is being continuously retested. Start here, for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neural_scaling_law

I know, on lemmy you will get the impression that engineers and scientists are all just bumbling fools who are intellectually outclassed by any high schooler with internet access. But how likely is that, really?

[–] mm_maybe@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Scaling laws are disputed, but if an effort has in fact already been undertaken to train a general purpose LLM using only permissively-licensed data, great! Can you send me the checkpoint on Huggingface, a github page hosting relevant code, or even a paper or blog post about it? I've been looking and hadn't found anything like that yet.

[–] General_Effort@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Scaling laws are disputed

Not in general.

There is not enough permissively licensed text to train models of any size, and what there is, lacks in diversity. Wikipedia, government documents, stack overflow, century old stuff, ... An LLM trained on that is not likely to be called "general purpose", because scaling laws. Sometimes such small models are trained for research purposes but I don't have a link ready. They are not something you'd actually use. Perhaps you could look at Microsoft's Phi series of models. They are trained on synthetic data, though that's probably not what you are looking for.

[–] mm_maybe@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago

yes, I've extensively written about Phi and other related issues in a blog post which I'll share here: https://medium.com/@matthewmaybe/data-dignity-is-difficult-64ba41ee9150

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