this post was submitted on 18 Sep 2024
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Why should the US president be in regular contact with the perpetrator of an ongoing genocide?
Almost makes you think the US supports continued Israeli apartheid.
You're asking why the US formed an ally 75 years ago with the only stable democracy in the middle east and has a continued interest in maintaining stability in the region?
Of course not, you can only operate in sound bytes, buzzwords and catchphrases.
"only stable democracy" haha that old chestnut, you are deluded if you are ignoring the number of actual democracies in the ME that USA has helped topple or marginalised.
Haha let's talk about 75 years of ME geopolitics using buzzwords and catchphrases. Haha.
haha let's use the only parroted phrase you know again and again haha
If someone starts a conversation in buzzwords and catchphrases I will respond in kind. You don't like it? Feel free to start another thread that doesn't use catchphrase as the foundation and starting point for a conversation on me politics.
You guys want to have your cake and eat it. Pick one. Have a nuanced discussion about me politics or throw memes around. Don't shit yourself because you don't like what you see in the mirror.
It's me. We can smear our feces together.
Mind telling me how Israel is a table democracy? Or how they create stability? Maybe you can tell me why the middle east is a destabilized region to begin with?
I do mind telling you because I know I won't get an informed discussion out of this thread. You want to talk ME politics? Start a new thread with specifics and let's go over it. I'm not expending energy replying to buzz phrases with detailed responses. I've played this game and it sucks spending time and energy discussing something only to get back.
People use lazy catchphrases to describe me politics: I respond with more lazy catchphrases.
So you can't then, got it.
You're asking a rhetorical question in the hopes of getting a gotcha. Because, again, all you guys do is swim in catchphrases and vibes. Your primary goal here is not to deepen any kind of understanding. If you did, you would be a lot more honest in your questions. You'd open up with a clear argument, based on specifics, with dates, people, events etc.
No one is obligated to give you an essay on the last 75 years of ME geopolitics if all you do is start is with catchphrases and gotchas.
You want a nuanced discussion that delves into the specifics of the geopolitics of the region? Start a thread that's not just diluted meaningless sentences, such as this nugget:
It's hopeless, because you guys will bounce back and forth between one catchphrase or buzz sentence without opening a book, or a wikipedia page, or an article, or anything. And you want us to come here and write essays to explain or refute these meaningless sentiments. It's all vibes. You start threads with vibes, you get vibes.
To be clear, that wasnt me you just responded to, but I was the one who asked you the questions. You seem to be making a lot of bad faith assumptions about my intent with those questions.
Well, it is rhetorically framed, but I was trying to see if you and I are both working with frameworks built on reality.
Again, ouch. The tone of the questions may have come across that way, but my intent is never to "gotcha"... You'll just have to take my word for it obviously.
This is a forum on internet, not debate club. Like I said above, I'm sorry if my questions came across as being bad faith, but I'm not obligated to serve you a rhetorically perfect and fallacy-free set of questions, just as you are not obligated to engage with my questions if you feel they're trying to uh... "Gotcha"
I'm not totally sure how I'm responding with catch phrases. Honestly, if nothing else I'd love for you to clarify this
I'm sorry, I'm not being intentionally obtuse, but I can't tell if you're using the above as an example of a "diluted meaningless sentence" or whether it's meant to be a good question.
Ultimately, I don't feel I was acting in bad faith considering I was trying to evaluate your framework. If you feel it was done poorly, that's okay, you dont need to respond.
Also:
Who are "you guys"?
I only responded to you in this manner because your comment is downstream from OPs catchphrase comment (90% of Lemmy and socia media these days). Soundbytes that sound good, but ultimately mean nothing.
It's likely you were asking in good faith. I could have spent a lot of time typing up a thoughtful and comprehensive response only to find out later you really are here only for more memes. Then I would have lost a lot of time and it would have limited productivity.
It's not personal, but after dozens of typed out discussions that end in "lmao. Genocide Joe tho America Imperialism bad" I've learned that unless someone starts the thread or convo with specifics it will only linger in the realm of memes.
Again, sorry if you feel singled out. I'm just building a stronger filter. And I urge others to do the same. We should all be pushing harder for specifics. I urge you to do the same when arguing with people online. Have the conversation grounded in specifics and not memes.
To summarize: If someone starts with claims that are essentially memes, they should not get detailed responses. Once people start talking specifics we can match the energy.
If you personally want to have a convo with me my dms are open.
Whilst the first part of your point is correct IMHO, for the rest Israel has been the very opposite of a force for stability in the region and the non-conditionality of the US' help has emboldened successive Israeli governments to behave worse and worse thus making the region less stable (one of their main concerns seems to be to stop nations around them from having stable democratic governments) rather than more.
I would say that ACAB and a bunch of very rich Americans with Fascist tendencies who happen to be Jewish and love the ethno-Fascism which is Zionism having bought American Politics (basically doing what Russia wanted to do and, unlike Russia, actually succeeding) is a far better explanation for continued American support of Israel, a theory that much better explains the unconditionality of the American support for Israel than the idea that it's because of wanting stability in the Middle East.
Absolutelly, American support makes geostrategical sense up to a point. It's just that we're well beyond that point and the American support in its current form (weapon shipments, blocking UN resolutions condemning the genocide) doesn't make sense for geostrategical reasons (both in terms of stability in the Middle East and because it also damages the perception of America all over the World), so it must be something else driving it.
Apart with all the buzzwords; Current US politics for Israel is making US look bad on an international stage. There's no point in behaving that way.