this post was submitted on 24 Aug 2023
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[–] GivingEuropeASpook@hexbear.net 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Being a sovereign nation is when you don't have a seat in the UN and most sovereign nations refuse to recognize you as an independent nation.

I really don't think this is the view people on the left should hold. Someone could say the same thing about many nations or groups that don't have a seat in the UN and aren't recognised but are still supported by communists and anarchists.

[–] Blursty@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

What is a "sovereign nation"?

[–] Abraxiel@hexbear.net 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

De facto, a polity that has a distinct administration which dictates policy within and maintains its own borders.

[–] 7bicycles@hexbear.net 4 points 1 year ago

pretty sure the red light district in my town fits that definition.

Unless you get like seriously scientific about it a sovereign nation is basically vibes based

[–] GivingEuropeASpook@hexbear.net 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sovereignty as a concept in international relations stems from the Treaty of Westphalia, in that each nation has an absolute say within its own borders and that said borders are inviolable.

[–] Blursty@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 year ago

In which case Ukraine was not sovereign after it was overthrown by America's Nazi coup.

[–] AssortedBiscuits@hexbear.net 7 points 1 year ago

Whether a nation or people is sovereign or not is a statement of reality, and part of sovereignty is whether other sovereign countries are able to vouch for your sovereignty. Just formally acknowledging your sovereignty like having an embassy is the bare minimum, but there's more like defense treaties, economic deals, and joining organizations. At the end of the day, there will be other countries and entities that will seek to challenge and destroy a country's sovereignty and unless you have a fleet of Gundams, you'll need other countries to rush to your defense when it's challenged. Nobody can do it alone.

If you're talking about cases like the ROC being in the UN instead of the PRC even though the PRC is de facto far larger than the ROC, remember that the UN isn't an immutable organization. There's nothing stopping the ROC from denouncing the UN as a sham organization after getting kicked out and starting their own rival organization called the League of United Nations or something and getting other countries to cosign to this new organization. There's nothing stopping the ROC from campaigning their allies (ie the West and various Western vassals) to leave the UN and join the LUN. But for obvious reasons, a LUN would never happen because the ROC doesn't have many allies. Most countries, including its so-called allies, see Taiwan as a US unsinkable aircraft carrier that'll inevitably be reunited with the Mainland, whether peacefully or by force, or be completely destroyed in the process of a US-China war.