this post was submitted on 26 Jan 2025
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[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 10 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Remember how I said I voted for her and have said I would be voting dem the whole time and you still insist I didn’t.

I don't remember this, though it's certainly possible, considering how many people playing stupid games I argued with during the lead-up to the election.

I also said that Gaza would look really bad for them and would lose them michigan but you insisted that changing their mind was political suicide.

My opinion on the public opinion on Gaza changed all the way back in March with the emergence of new polling numbers on US Dem and independent opinion on the genocide. Before March I said that it was impractical for the Dems to change their platform when the majority of Dems still supported Israel (or did not support the removal of aid, which amounts to the same thing). Having lived through the US electorate sleeping through Israeli genocide several times in my short life, I don't think it's ridiculous that I thought they'd sleep through it again, while us few who cared about foreign policy looked on in horror, as we had the last three times.

I did opine at several points after March that I understood why a change may not be a net gain since opinions were deeply divided, but that they should commit to an anti-genocide anyway, since either position had become a losing position with regards to large portions of the electorate.

So glad they listened to people like you.

Did Gaza protest votes lose the Dems the election or not? I wish you lot would make up your mind.

[–] HuntressHimbo@lemm.ee -2 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I think they contributed significantly, but I put the blame on the people who decided Genocide at all costs, aka the candidates.

[–] PugJesus@lemmy.world 9 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

I don't think the genocide was the deciding factor. I don't think winning over swing voters on both sides of the genocide would've saved us, unfortunately. The numbers which came in after election day were... not close enough, and the issue not rated highly enough by voters to make up the difference.

I put significant blame on Biden for ignorantly trundling forward for months despite internal polling telling him that he was cooked, some blame on Harris and her allies for running a shite campaign, and the overwhelming amount of blame on the ~90 million voters who said "I don't care if fascism wins" and the ~77 million who said "I want fascism to win".

In a just world, Biden would be reviled as the man who lost the republic, and I intend to put that forward regularly for as long as I can. In a just world, Harris's political career would be dead. I'm less dedicated to that. But neither of their flaws or positions justifies letting fascism win. If Biden and Harris deserve a noose, even, that would still not mean that the electorate was not at fault. The final choice between fascism and a non-fascist regime was ultimately decided by the electorate, not the candidates. You can place blame on the chef who makes a burnt stir-fry and loses the contest for incompetence or malice, but in the end, it's the judges who decided that they preferred the "Glass, arsenic, and dogshit sandwich" - or didn't care enough to make a decision either way - who made the ultimate decision.

For those who sat by and let fascism win despite being nominally left-wing, this is essentially an expression of frustration.

This wasn't even "Trump supports my one issue". That would be ridiculous, but there's a logic to it, if one legitimately values a single issue above all others. But it wasn't. For all of them who stood by and let Trump win, they did so with the knowledge that Trump was worse on the issue they were supposedly protesting against.

It's exhausting. To see people complain about support for genocide and then decide that if they can't stop it, they're okay with INCREASING support for genocide, and starting a few new ones for good measure.

And honestly, I'm only a little pissed that I'm in the sights of the regime, if not the first target (that, unfortunately, will be our trans countrymen and women). Mostly I'm pissed at the idea that 'left' people embraced injustice entirely without gain out of either spite or sheer empty-headed thoughtlessness. Are they the lynchpin? Would they have saved us? Probably not. Maybe if they put 100% in campaigning, but I can hardly blame them for not doing that. But they should have known better than to stand by and let fascism in. By the values they preach, they should have known better. And by the fact that most of them still prefer puffing up their inaction as some form of heroic resistance instead of a contribution to a literal fascist victory?

Well, forgive me for not wanting that narrative of 'Inaction against fascism is heroic' to take root, in case we still have elections in four years. God only knows what kind of margin of victory or defeat we'll be dealing with.