This isn't about us. What "we" should do is to support and show solidarity with the side being attacked by an imperialist, dictatorial state and help them defend themselves.

When the Finnish were defending themselves in the Winter War it would not have been just to say "they should just surrender to save their lives". The Finns did eventually surrender, but only after they had stomped the Soviet army all across Finland. They continued fighting not to die but so that they could live.

The Ukrainians are fighting now not to die but so that they can live in (relative) freedom.

Again, this "we should just capitulate to whatever warmongers want" stuff is shameful and cowardly, doubly so for people on the Left.

[–] RedDawn@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Lol of all the examples, you pick another group of Nazis as a favorable point of comparison!! Wtf. Thank GOD the Soviets beat the Finnish Nazis in that war and then went on to beat the German Nazis after that.

Also lmao at calling Ukraine a free country compared to Russia, it’s just as fucked politically even prior to this invasion, now they’ve banned all left wing parties and are putting up statues of Nazis all over the place, fuck off, this has nothing at all to do with freedom.

[–] winterayars@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Finland allied with the Nazis after the Winter War, in an attempt to regain their sovereignty from the USSR. They were not allied with Nazi Germany during the Winter War--and after the war, the leadership of the USSR agreed that Finland was not a particular risk and could be left alone.

Also lmao at calling Ukraine a free country compared to Russia

Ukraine is a far, far freer country than Russia. Of that there should be no doubt. On what merit, what axis, is Russia a freer society? Perhaps there is one, but Russia today is a corrupt, dictatorial, fascist state whose ruling party routinely imprisons or assassinates its political opposition or just general dissidents. They're also hardcore anti-gay, among other things.

Ukraine did suspend a number of pro-Russia political parties recently. Even if it was specifically targeting left-wing parties that still pales in comparison to Russia's treatment of political opposition and let's not forget that Ukraine is currently waging a defensive war against Russia. Also Zelensky is Jewish so i doubt he is putting up Nazi statues or in favor of doing so. I presume you're referring to activity of the Azov Battalion or some other group inside Ukraine and while those are dangerous and problematic, the Nazis in the Russian army are (I suspect) a more serious threat to the Ukrainian people right now.

[–] RedDawn@hexbear.net 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Russia and Ukraine are basically the same politically, except for there are more Nazis in power in Ukraine. Prior to the invasion Ukraine was categorically ranked as the most corrupt country in Europe, Zelensky himself is in the Panama papers, they absolutely are not good on gay rights either, they overthrew their democratically elected president in 2014 in a CIA backed coup to put in a government handpicked by the U.S. (we can listen to Nuland picking the government on leaked phone calls), they’ve banned political opposition and all leftist parties (not pro-Russia, just all leftists. Being leftist generally means having semi sane takes like not wanting everybody in the country to die, so they had to be banned by the Nazi regime).

Also I didn’t say Russia is a free country, but Ukraine is easily just as bad if not worse, it’s a total farce to make this about freedom or democracy or any of that shit. Hell if democracy in Ukraine was real the war wouldn’t be happening, Zelensky was elected to end the conflict in the Donbass, he went to the front lines and told the Nazis to lay down arms and they told him to fuck off lol. You can watch the video of that happening.

[–] winterayars@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Russia and Ukraine are basically the same politically...

Now you're just saying shit you wish were true. Come on. There are some pretty big differences.

...except for there are more Nazis in power in Ukraine.

The president of Ukraine is Jewish and his family fought and died in WW2. This doesn't mean there's no problem, but that is not indicative of a country overcome by Nazis.

Your characterization is grotesque and you're literally repeating Russia's propaganda about the war. Do you not see that? Or do you see it? Do you know what you are doing with that argument?

they overthrew their democratically elected president in 2014 in a CIA backed coup

This is great, you pro-Russia fuckers are all using the same arguments so i get to re-use my links! You're referring to the Revolution of Dignity, here, for those who don't know.

And you're going to have to provide a source and some details as far as what, exactly, you claim the CIA did. I haven't heard any credible claim that they were more than indirectly involved in propaganda and if that's the standard then Russia was doing the same damn thing if not more.

...we can listen to Nuland picking the government on leaked phone calls...

Presumably you're referring to these leaks, where she talks about how (for example) she doesn't think Vitaly Klitschko should "go into the government". Well, Klitschko became Mayor of Kyiv in 2014 so that's a bit of a blow to your theory.

...they’ve banned political opposition and all leftist parties (not pro-Russia, just all leftists. Being leftist generally means having semi sane takes like not wanting everybody in the country to die, so they had to be banned by the Nazi regime).

And this is just straight up factually wrong. None of this is correct.

Also I didn’t say Russia is a free country, but Ukraine is easily just as bad if not worse

I didn't say you did. I asked: on what merit is Ukraine worse than Russia? You have made that claim multiple times but have not provided one, I see, and nor have you provided a source for your claim. Surely you're not seriously going to claim elections or civil liberties, where Russia is much worse than Ukraine and not just a little worse.

[–] RedDawn@hexbear.net 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I get to reuse my links

Lmfao it’s Wikipedia bwahahaha you idiots are all the same.