this post was submitted on 05 Jun 2025
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Privacy
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Say the line Bart!
sigh, "Unlike insert socialist country here, the West has freedom of speech and the right to express your opinions without the secret police coming after you."
YAYYYYYYY!
Fuck all those spying countries. But yea still I believe in the west you get in trouble for acting, not just speaking
This is a cool way to protect a belief, narrowing the scope so that the refuting data do not apply anymore. Perhaps I can write a fucking essay about it, but do you have data to support this narrowing move? There is like a ton of data that the West has been invasively spying of possible threats to the status quo (from Cointelpro to undercover UK cops like recently), not just people "acting on it". Furthermore, actions can fall under protected free speech as well, like putting up a poster, demonstrating, and protesting. So your proposal is inherently undemocratic if you roll back freedom to only protect oral expression, quite similar to a "Don't ask don't tell" attitude towards gay people. What you just said is simply counter-factual. Blanket surveillance is a staple of Western societies in the 21st century, and it blows my mind that there are still people oblivious to what is more or less spelled out clearly in the Patriot Act and all laws modeled after it across the globe.
Sure, any censorship, spying and oppression is bad. I’m just saying one goes harder than the other, but I’m not denying that it sucks and that it clearly exists. I’m well aware of the patriot act and that speaking can endanger you. I just have this feeling like you get persecuted for speaking against the government in countries like China, whereas you need to be a strong figure to have the same fate in other countries. Anyways, it sucks for all countries that have this.
I have no data and this is just a feeling.
Democracy and freedom of speech, freedom to protest, freedom in general is in danger
We can learn and take away a lot from this vibes-based, "democracy" virtue-signaling analysis, but not about the topic at hand.
This is still a cool way to downplay the West's imperial staple of suppressing activism, engages in revisionism and amplifies everything that helps liberalism, all while accusing everyone outside the imperial core of doing so (or doing worse) as well, the statement along the lines of "does worse" doesn't mean anything when you recognize that it's a Western idea fully embraced and embroidered by the West that is insurpassable/incomparable to any other form of censorship.
Freedom of speech is a meaningless concept, especially so for anyone that's not white, when you can't actually criticize EU/US/KKKommonwealth countries within these countries meaningfully without fear of losing your job, your house, your visa (this is exacerbated for foreigners, often not talked about) or your life.
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/tufts-university-student-detained-pro-palestine-views-transferred-louisiana
https://www.commondreams.org/news/ice-warrant-mahmoud-khalil
Your "freedom" to "speech" and "democracy" are constrained within a clearly drawn boundary, the boundary of which is drawn by the ruling class.
Any other country outside the West engaging in censorship is either a) a dog of the West or b) protecting itself from fully succumbing into being a dog of the West.
Notice how a Westerner does not risk anything by truly believing in and expressing things like "china censorship bad arabs/muslims are dirty terrorist scum and need to be wiped off the map these russian orcs need to be wiped off the planet", but a non-Westerner risks absolutely everything by even slightly hinting at a criticism towards Western imperialism/wanting better conditions at the cost of the ruling class, perhaps even in their own damn fucking country, this is where point a) comes in to play.
When it comes to China, they fall squarely in b):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAEwoYIYgJA
Once you understand the asymmetry, it becomes a lot clearer why the "both sides" argument is just a feeble attempt at minimizing Western imperialism.