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[-] myslsl@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

This is not about whether your neighbor is committing wrongdoing in your community, rather whether the system itself, and the edifices that hold it up are conducting themselves in good faith. Without these major players pressuring government to extend the enforced monopolies of copyright longer (that is, robbing the public – you and I – of its catalog of public-domain material) and failing to enforce educational and fair use, we wouldn’t have IP laws at all, and piracy would not be a thing.

Firstly, the neighbor comment I made is an analogy. Nobody is claiming this is about literal neighbors committing wrongdoings in a community. I'm not sure if you've missed my point with that analogy or if you're choosing to willfully misunderstand it here?

Second, what you're claiming here isn't correct when you talk about "what this is about". My comment which you are replying to was not about whether "the system itself, and the edifices holding it up are conducting themselves in good faith" or anything like that. My whole point is about whether "If they make it difficult or impossible to acquire through purchase … I think an argument can be made for surfing the high seas." is good reasoning or not. Nobody is debating you on whether the modern media industries, the government, etc are corrupt or acting in good faith. That has nothing to do with my actual point.

We’re not pirating from the artists. We’re not pirating from our neighbors. We’re pirating from giant corporations who’ve been plying the government for over a century now to strip rights from the public.

You keep jumping back to these points of "well the media corporations, the government, etc did X wrong by us, so we're automatically justified to pirate", that's not how this works. The whole issue is why does that justify piracy? Doubling down and trying to say "BUT I WAS WRONGED!" is not a good argument here. Being wronged in some way does not make it morally acceptable to just do whatever you like.

[-] TowardsTheFuture@vlemmy.net 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I believe they mean not that they were wronged, but that the system is wrong. Ala MLK just laws and unjust laws. They disagree with IP law and thus feel piracy is fine as such.

Personally, I pay for my music and don’t use streaming services. I support bands by going to shows and buying merch. However I also don’t listen to big name artists and shit, and think most really don’t give a shit if you pay for the music or not if you’re supporting them in some way often. Plenty of bands have a “steal this record” or “steal this album”, or end up putting out stuff where they’d urged people to pirate their shit example: Streetlight Manifesto had done so because victory was refusing to send CD’s to the band to distribute to those who had preordered, wasn’t paying them for purchases made through victories site, etc. The (bigger label) music industry is fucked. They extort bands. They extort venues. They extort anywhere that plays music. They extort anything they can for money while the content creators barely get shit.

[-] myslsl@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I don't think the system being wrong is very good justification either. You still run into the same problem I'm pointing out. If some local store near me has an inherently fucked up return policy, I'm probably not justified in shitting in the middle of an aisle or trying to fistfight a cashier in response. Something being wrong isn't an immediate justification for whatever action a person takes in reaction.

[-] TowardsTheFuture@vlemmy.net 1 points 1 year ago

Of course you wouldn't be justified in harming a minimum wage worker because the policy of the corporation. That is like the opposite of the point. Its more like, say my neighbor owns a company and exploits immigrants to do lawncare. Maybe I'd pay for it if I knew he was actually taking care of his workers and not exploiting them, but he sucks, boo. So while he is away on vacation I borrow his equipment without asking to do my own lawn. Does it hurt him? I mean technically there is more wear & tear on the equipment. Will he notice? No. Do I give a shit if it causes it to break faster than it would have otherwise? Nah, fuck him.

[-] myslsl@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Of course you wouldn’t be justified in harming a minimum wage worker because the policy of the corporation. That is like the opposite of the point.

That's a pretty obvious example of the point I was making when I said: "Something being wrong isn’t an immediate justification for whatever action a person takes in reaction."

Say my neighbor owns a company and exploits immigrants to do lawncare. Maybe I’d pay for it if I knew he was actually taking care of his workers and not exploiting them, but he sucks, boo. So while he is away on vacation I borrow his equipment without asking to do my own lawn. Does it hurt him? I mean technically there is more wear & tear on the equipment. Will he notice? No. Do I give a shit if it causes it to break faster than it would have otherwise? Nah, fuck him.

This feels like very self serving reasoning. I don't think you're actually justified in doing something along these lines. Even worse, you can actually cause more harm by doing this. Your wear and tear on your neighbors tools can make the jobs of the already exploited immigrants harder and if the tools break the immigrants may be blamed for it. This actually feels like another good example of my point above that a wrong does not automatically imply justification, regardless of how much it might benefit you personally.

[-] TowardsTheFuture@vlemmy.net 1 points 1 year ago

Lol what? Goddamn how big is your estate that one single use of a lawnmower is going to so significantly destroy it that it’d be noticeably harder to use? This is like putting 10 miles on a car. Not putting sugar in the gas tank. Jesus.

Point is, if someone is a piece of shit I could care less about inconveniencing them. Which is all stealing from large corporations amounts to.

(Again, large corporations, not smaller shops which even if shitty will do shit like take losses out of cashiers pay checks where it is legal [or not, they often don’t care] to do so, so it’s best not to steal from them either way.)

[-] myslsl@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Lol what? Goddamn how big is your estate that one single use of a lawnmower is going to so significantly destroy it that it’d be noticeably harder to use? This is like putting 10 miles on a car. Not putting sugar in the gas tank. Jesus.

It seems plausible to that a manager that is already abusing people would go out of their way to do things like docking pay over pretty trivial things like relatively minor tool damage? It doesn't even have to be at the same scale as actually breaking the tools to cause the kinds of harm I'm talking about.

Point is, if someone is a piece of shit I could care less about inconveniencing them. Which is all stealing from large corporations amounts to. (Again, large corporations, not smaller shops which even if shitty will do shit like take losses out of cashiers pay checks where it is legal [or not, they often don’t care] to do so, so it’s best not to steal from them either way.)

I can sort of get behind the idea that large corporations do a bunch of bad shit, we have an obligation to try and oppose/prevent bad shit from occurring, piracy harms large corporations hence is an act of opposition/prevention, so piracy is justified in that sense. But I don't think this kind of position is free from issues either.

[-] TowardsTheFuture@vlemmy.net 2 points 1 year ago

Fair, I think you’re taking it too literal and too concerned about damages where I mean, I know how to use a lawnmower and such without damaging them, so I’m not worried about that lol. But yeah, I don’t think it’s a moral obligation or anything, just definitely an understandable position for people to take given the context rather than stealing just cuz.

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this post was submitted on 06 Jul 2023
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