this post was submitted on 16 Jul 2025
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[–] Sterile_Technique@lemmy.world 19 points 1 week ago (6 children)

Mary cheats on her husband, gets pregnant, convinces the dumbass that it was some magic ghost that gave them a magic baby, and accidentally created a religion.

...woulda prevented a lot of problems had she just owned up to it >_<

[–] synapse1278@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago (4 children)

I've read somewhere (don't remember where sorry about that) Mary wasn't a virgin, and Joseph was definitely Jesus' father until some much later time when some pope decided that sex with women was gross and tweaked the story.

[–] frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Probably sooner than that. The "Pope" as we know it is an office that evolved later, though the Catholic church claims the line goes back to the Apostle Peter.

The stories in the gospels are a collection of stories that had been circulating orally among the first century Christians, and got written down mostly in the late second half of that century. Mary likely never claimed a virgin birth at all; that was invented by the oral tradition. Pretty much everything about Jesus childhood is made up to push certain religious narratives.

Which itself is sometimes interesting to follow. The whole census story behind Jesus birth, for instance, is almost certainly made up. Why would Rome require everyone to go back to their birth city to register? That's hugely disruptive to everyday life if people have to travel days or weeks just to fill out some paperwork. But why did they stick that in there? One good answer is that the particular group who wrote that section of the gospels--it doesn't appear in all of them--really wanted to connect Jesus to King David and Bethlehem, but everyone knows Jesus is from Nazareth. So they stick this convoluted census story in there to have a reason for Jesus to be born in Bethlehem instead of Nazareth.

[–] FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

One good answer is that the particular group who wrote that section of the gospels–it doesn’t appear in all of them–really wanted to connect Jesus to King David and Bethlehem, but everyone knows Jesus is from Nazareth. So they stick this convoluted census story in there to have a reason for Jesus to be born in Bethlehem instead of Nazareth.

Specifically from the prophecy from Micah

^2^But you, O Bethlehem of Ephrathah, who are one of the little clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to rule in Israel, whose origin is from of old,

Source

Contextually, the entire book is one prophecy being given in the face of the Assyrian occupation (which was brought on by Ahaz begging for help.) Micah says that a figure will come from Bethlehem- because that's where David is from.

The key points are:

  • they're a descendent of David
  • they will liberate Judah.
  • The israelites that were taken as slaves/captives will be returned
  • the people of Judah will come back to being righteous as a kingdom. (AKA stop sending treasure from the temples as tribute to the Assyrians.)

These are things that Hezekiah has done, mostly. The prophecy of Micah in general is a sort of justification for Hezekiah's reign- it was in fact written after he came to the throne and started doing all these things.

Remember that Jesus did none of the messianic things that they're supposed to have done.

  • He was never anointed a king by a prophet, and couldn't have been an heir to david anyways. (his father was god, not joseph)
  • The temple was rebuilt by zebe-whatshisname; about five hundred years prior. the second temple wasn't destroyed until after 70 CE, which happens to be around the time the gospels were written.
  • He didn't bring any exiles back.
  • didn't establish a divine, eternal kingdom in what would be described as the Messianic age,
  • didn't bring peace.

and that... is why he rose from the dead and is coming back. he just had to run and get some milk from the grocery store.

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