this post was submitted on 11 Oct 2023
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And pretty much indistinguishable. All those ravers, how could anyone differentiate them from military personnel???
your logic doesn’t make sense to anyone who is not caught in ideological hatred.
No wait, I’m calling it lies. Not logic. Lies.
The onus of responsibility lies on Israeli’s leadership and all that support the kinds of rulings and actions that have blurred the lines between combatant and non combatant.
Compulsory military service needs to go. Willing or unwilling, every citizen is forced into this conflict because they are required by law to do what their leadership asks them to, even if it means continuing the cycle of oppression. As we have seen with the Nuremberg trials, "Just following orders" is not an excuse.
There have also been numerous cases of the Israeli military protecting settlers in plains clothes as they commit terrorist acts against the indigenous populations. Doing so allows Israel to further its goal while officially creating plausible deniability for numerous humans rights violations.
These two factors alone heavily blur the lines between combatant and noncombatant, guilty and innocent, and fascist and non-fascist. It is very possible that this was done by design to force every Israeli citizen to have a stake in the conflict regardless of whether they want to. Israel knows Hamas does not have the luxury nor the technology to sift through potential targets to identify the legitimate ones. In a sense, the Zionist leadership is using the entirety of its population as a human-shield, and this placement of a civilian festivity near a military facility in a hot zone was a strategic one, such that when the legitimate target is attacked, others are caught in the cross-fire, and Israel can then use this to justify collective punishment against innocent civilians.
Just as the reactionary Republicans who accuse the democrats of all sorts of foul play that’s in their playbook, this whole comment looks to me like projection.
Using the population as shields, by hiding weapons and militants in hospitals and schools is what the Palestinian combatants have done for ~years~ decades. Etc
You have a few points, the Israeli government has long been gone across any reasonable state of mind.
But the whole mindset you describe did not originate in Israel. This whole situation is waaay less one sided than you make it appear. And it changed significantly last weekend, initiated with a terror attack of unprecedented scale by the Hamas.
The rave had many Israeli military soldiers positioned, and they fired at the Palestinian resistance forces heading to Re'im base and skirmished with them, putting the ravers in the crossfire.
Eye witness report “ Gunmen chased fleeing revellers across the desert, shooting and snatching people.”
And many very similar stories, including brutal rape and beheadings.
I continue calling your words lies.
They moved people off the battle field and kept them hostage, yes. They did not target and shoot civilians, the IDF put the ravers in crossfire when they engaged the Palestinian resistance. There's plenty of footage of the incident online, and none of it shows that. I'd be happy to be proven wrong; show me evidence. If all you have is "trust me bro" from the Israeli government and media, who have a proven track record of lying (and already admitted that they lied about this latest Hamas operation), then your claims are to be ignored.
Average terrorist supporter
I do not support Israel
🔥🔥🔥
The person I saw desperately hiding behind their car and shot and killed from three feet away by a Hamas fighter did not look to me to be an IDF soldier. They were deliberately targeted, not "caught in a crossfire". Videos don't lie.
Can you please share a link to the video, or point me to where I can find it? I am open to changing my mind.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7i254JAZCQ
Guess you haven't seen this one. It's in the first couple minutes.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=a7i254JAZCQ
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
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Thanks for the link! I assume you're speaking about the part between 1:30 and 1:40. a person wearing black appeared behind the lines of Palestinian forces. This would be pretty alarming to the fighters, as the person in black could be undercover or off duty soldier. The person was probably yelled at and told to get down, but proceeded to move in the wrong direction (could be language barrier). It seems that this is when someone opened fire, but you can see smoke appears on the ground noticeably far from the person. This means whoever was shooting shot at the ground, to alert the person in black. It was immediately after that that the person in black dropped to the ground.
Most likely, they dropped not because they got shot and killed, but because they complied after being warned with the gunshots. If you're shooting to kill, you wouldn't be shooting on the ground far from the person, or even their legs. Moreover, if you look close and zoom in, the person is seen moving after they drop right before the clip ends, indicating they're probably still alive, and the video clip ends immediately after.
Sorry, justify it and sugarcoat to yourself and speculate however you want, you're not going to convince me both sides aren't evil sick and twisted assholes in this conflict with both Palestinian and Israeli civilians caught in the middle.
This may be true but in order to come to a meaningful solution you cannot be afraid to analyze the situation. By all conclusions the violence and power in this situation is entirely asymmetrical. The IDF have been operating an apartheid state and an open air prison. These conditions led to the violence. The solution is a free Palestine.
No need to apologize. I understand you've made up your mind already, but the facts are clear, and others reading my comment can cross what I said with the video to compare and verify me.
"both sides" is a meaningless stance. What are you recommending, other than maintaining the status quo of massacre and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians? Of slow death and suffocation? What are Palestinians to do but resist?
I don't have an answer to that. Nobody has a good answer to that. It doesn't mean I condone targeting civilians, no matter who it is. They both have the right to exist and live in peace.
By supporting the status quo, you are supporting the murder of civilians involved in said status quo. No worries though, its not surprising from westerners. Been doing it for centuries now.
Did I say I support the status quo? No, I did not. But your "solution" is also not acceptable to me. I'd say the same damn thing if I ever found out that people who lived under the holocaust harmed random people in the streets of Germany. That is simply never justifiable. I would take my own life before I ever take the life of a noncombatant civilian who has personally done me no harm. That's something I could never live with, maybe you can.
You have opposed any change to the status quo. What else would that make you?
The resistance against Nazi Germany actually had far far more civilian casualties than Palestine's resistance against Israel, despite the fact that the Palestinian cause has been ongoing for way longer. Did you really not know this? I must be misunderstanding you, or maybe you misspoke. I thought they teach about this extensively in the US