this post was submitted on 05 Nov 2023
154 points (89.3% liked)

Europe

8324 readers
1 users here now

News/Interesting Stories/Beautiful Pictures from Europe 🇪🇺

(Current banner: Thunder mountain, Germany, 🇩🇪 ) Feel free to post submissions for banner pictures

Rules

(This list is obviously incomplete, but it will get expanded when necessary)

  1. Be nice to each other (e.g. No direct insults against each other);
  2. No racism, antisemitism, dehumanisation of minorities or glorification of National Socialism allowed;
  3. No posts linking to mis-information funded by foreign states or billionaires.

Also check out !yurop@lemm.ee

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Translation:

Essen's mayor Thomas Kufen (CDU) reacts with horror to a demonstration in his city on Friday evening. 3,000 people, including many Islamists, marched through the Ruhr metropolis.

Essen's mayor Thomas Kufen (CDU) reacted with outrage and incomprehension to an anti-Israel demonstration that marched through the Ruhr metropolis on Friday evening. Several of the approximately 3,000 participants chanted slogans and held up posters calling for a "Khilafah" (caliphate) in Germany. The three-hour procession on the edge of the city center was accompanied by 450 police officers and observed by state security.

According to the Essen police, the demonstration was registered by a private individual. However, the main organizer was apparently the “Generation Islam” group, which security experts consider to be part of the pan-Islamist movement “Hizb ut-Tahrir” (HuT) . HuT has been banned in Germany since 2003. The main speaker at the final rally in Essen was the activist Ahmad Tamim, the head of “Generation Islam.” The Islamic scholar Ahmad Omeirate told WAZ that Tamim was “using the Middle East conflict for mobilization and radicalization.”

Mayor Kufen regretted on Saturday morning that "Islamists, anti-democrats and Jew-haters" were allowed to parade through Essen protected by the freedom of assembly guaranteed by the Basic Law: "That is difficult to bear." The CDU politician, who was the North Rhine-Westphalia state government's integration officer from 2005 to 2010, called for consequences: "The Office for the Protection of the Constitution must take a closer look at Hizb ut-Tahrir's splinter and successor groups. Bans must be an option."

The demonstrators shouted slogans in Arabic and German on Friday evening. Posters condemned the Israeli military operation in Gaza ("Stop the genocide") after the terrorist attack by the Palestinian Hamas, and one sign read: "German raison d'état calls for the killing of children." The organizers initially used loudspeakers to remind people of the police requirement that no participant should question Israel's right to exist. The tip-off was met with loud boos from the crowd.

At the beginning of the march, participants were also asked over loudspeakers to separate men and women. So it happened that most of the female demonstrators marched through the city behind the male participants. They repeatedly shouted "Allahu akbar" ("God is great") and held up signs calling for the unity of all Muslim believers and the establishment of a caliphate in Germany. Individual demonstrators stuck their right index fingers in the air; This gesture is intended to symbolize belief in the "one God", but is also seen as a symbol of the terrorist organization "Islamic State". The design of several black and white banners and flags also resembled depictions of IS.

The Essen police announced on Saturday that they would subsequently analyze the Friday demonstration and examine its “criminal relevance”. It turned out that the motive for a pro-Palestine meeting was only a pretext. Instead, the organizers held a religious event.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] TinyPizza@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Interesting. Would you call it the "Muslim problem" ?

[–] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, I would describe it like I described it, to avoid miscommunication. Why would I use populist language?

[–] TinyPizza@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You said there was a general problem with Muslims that you saw? If it's general, and attributable, why would you not call it that? Are there other larger problems that you see with Muslims that you think are even more attributable and deserving of the title?

[–] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you could only read:

there is a general problem with modern Islam

I'm explicitly talking about the ideology not the people. Care to explain why is it so important to you to put specific words in my mouth, rather than participate in a conversation - by like stating your own opinion instead of this cheap rhetorical dancing?

[–] TinyPizza@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sure, let me redress. You're saying there's a problem between Islam and Democracy correct? So what kind of solutions do you think there are to that incompatibility? Is this an Islam problem, or a religion in government problem?

I personally don't think religion has any place in government. So that would be the more existential issue for me, in terms of compatibility.

[–] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You’re saying there’s a problem between Islam and Democracy correct?

I'm saying more explicitly: a problem between modern dominant interpretation of Islam and liberal societies (democracy by proxy). There is nothing inherently antidemocratic in Islam or any other Religion since they are all open to rather liberal interpretations, like shown time and time through out history.

So what kind of solutions do you think there are to that incompatibility?

As I wrote elsewhere, one solution would be creating European, more liberal Islam version. But I also won't claim that I have figured it all out. Recognizing problems, figuring out solutions and implementing them are all different, even so related shoes.

Is this an Islam problem, or a religion in government problem?

Those are two different things. Problematic for different, related reasons.

I personally don’t think religion has any place in government.

Religion does not have to be directly involved in government to act upon society. As an ideology it drives decisions of people - not last through societal pressure on decision maker. Look no further then Poland for an example.

So care to answer my question, for a change:

Care to explain why is it so important to you to put specific words in my mouth

?

[–] TinyPizza@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sure, was just genuinely curious if you'd call it that! Though it may come as a surprise I've encountered similar language quite a lot lately and wanted to gauge your stance.

I appreciate the thorough reply. Genuinely.

[–] gapbetweenus@feddit.de 2 points 1 year ago

Fair enough, that's why I tried to chose my word carefully.