this post was submitted on 08 Nov 2023
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Many capitalist models depend on exponential growth. That doesn't exist in nature (I think to even in cancer so I too disagree with the original meme on some level but agree with the overall notion)
What is very common in biology is logistic growth, or the "S curve". It starts like an exponential function, looks almost linear in the middle and approaches a maximum at the end.
You can model it as an exponential curve if you're only interested in the beginning but to extrapolate it further is just wrong.
Take lily in a pond. It might double each day for a while, but will slow down eventually. When it covers half the area at one day, it won't cover it all the next. At that point, it takes as long to cover everything except what it did at the start, as it took to cover half the pond from the start (approximately of cause).
Economic models often don't take this into account but just assume exponential growth which is wrong and not found in biology.
Limitless != exponential.
I mean, that doesn't change much. There ain't no other limitless growth in life, is there? The key difference between exponential logistic growth is that the latter has a limite.
What does that even mean? Time is on the x-axis, what is on the y-axis if not quantity?
Sorry for reading the wrong books apparently...
Do you know any useful biological models that are limitless and not exponential? You seem to think that "life is based on" them?
Also the exponential discussion is a red-herring. You just picked out a detail that was misstated, and pretend to win.
Now seriously, have you ever heard anyone claim life is based on unlimited growth (outside of this meme)?
Sounds like a limit to me. The entire point is that economic models often don't take this kind of limits into account. Source: read a book
You need to re-read the meme. You're so close but you can't see the forest for the trees.
The meme makes fun of a post that compares capitalism to cancer by saying "all life is about limitless growth, not just cancer". This is wrong. Life "knows" its limits. Capitalism doesn't, neither does cancer
The only limit to life is the available resources, same with cancer, same with capitalism.
Life will continue until it ends or consumes the universe, just like cancer does with a human body, or a capitalist does to a society.
Life reaches a balance. Most parasites don't kill their host and even if they do, they won't kill the whole population which would kill the parasite itself. Cancer does exactly that. It kills just one individual but can't spread to others so it destroys its whole basis of being (since it's not a parasite).
Capitalism is on its way to do exactly that. It spreads over the world, exploiting resources beyond repair and just moves on. It expects exponential growth for some reason and that isn't sustainable. Life doesn't do that.
You can disagree but don't call me illiterate. I'm trying to keep calm and civil but if you don't understand my points, maybe you are stupid, not me.
I made a graphic in paint because I didn't have any crayons for you.
Feel free to replace Total Universal Resources, for "Human health" when dealing with cancer. Works as is for capitalism. as it does for life. As per the point of the OP.
What about a straight line? Do you know anything about ecosystems? There are sustainable ecosystems, obviously not for eternity but for much longer than capitalism exists
Hence the point. They really need to boost universal education funding.
What is the point? The original post talks about limitless for still the universe will end at some point so it's not eternity put "just" much longer than humans can imagine? That doesn't change anything about the capitalism critics of the original post OP makes fun of
The point is the part you're not getting. Obviously.
Reductio ad absurdum, is the point.
So what limit does life know about time? Or will it continue for eternity?
Also might want to look up that latin phrase, I didn't put it there because it sounded like a fancy spell, it's a legitimate train of philosophical thought that you obviously have no comprehension of.
You know the difference between existing and growing, do you? You can continue to exist for eternity without growing. A stone doesn't grow, neither does a forest necessarily even though the trees do until they die. So each tree grows but not for eternity, and the forest doesn't grow but exists (potentially) for eternity. Capitalism would want the tree to grow eternity.
This is a simplification, so is the original post. You can disagree with it and with me, but don't call me illiterate. I try to keep calm and civil but if you don't understand my points, maybe you are stupid not me.
Object can, life can't. Life is the subject matter.
Yes.
No. Capitalism wants to grow from the limited resources of the tree for eternity.
Just like cancer wants to grow from the limited resources in your body for eternity.
Just like life wants to grow from the universes limited resources until eternity.
All inevitably unsustainable.
That's not the same since life stops growing at some point like I stop trying to explain simple facts to you at this point. I rather read a book than discuss with trolls. But like capitalism, I should have stopped earlier.
Yes, life stops growing when the resources run out. Just like capitalism, just like cancer.
The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago, second best time is now. Go plant the seeds of a better education. Have a good life.
I say it one more time: capitalist models expect limitless growth. That's the problem since there is no limitless growth. It is this discrepancy of expectation and reality that makes capitalism so destructive.
So you agree that we need an economic and social system that doesn't? Your pedantry that life isn't eternal is way beyond the point since for all intents and purposes, it is as good as eternal
Yes.
Holy fucking shit, you got it! You got the point!
Reductio ad absurdum
To reduce to absurdity.
So you make fun of the guy changing capitalism to life? Sorry, I misread it.
But even then you should read a book. Many people compare capitalism to nature since Darwin and stuff. That's not reductio ad absurdum but a naturalistic fallacy. That's why I didn't get your point.
That makes your meme a strawman since you attack something that no one said. The argument is "capitalism is natural" not "all life will end eventually".
Impossible, that's literally exactly what I did. I edited someone else's comment in a way that points out the shaky logic it's built on. There is no way to be any less of a strawman.
No it's not, go read.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum
And stop incorrectly using the word strawman. You made so much progress, don't regress now that you've reached your next misunderstanding.
I thought you made the "capitalism to life"-change to point out that not only capitalism but all life will end eventually so it's ok.
Well, wikipedia says:
That's what you did. The argument was "capitalism (and growth) is natural" and you made it into "life isn't limitless because there is no eternity" and you're still not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction. The former is a common argument, the latter is just stupid.
Don't talk down to me! Try to understand my point or fuck off!
Where is this ever stated or implied?
It's not my comprehension that's lacking. So as you say:
I've tried to explain you why I misunderstood you and where you are wrong but you're just being a dick. Go fuck yourself
Ftfy.
When you decide you want to return to developing understanding I'll be awaiting your questions, not your statements.