this post was submitted on 23 Dec 2023
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Privacy

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[–] Septimaeus@infosec.pub 46 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (27 children)

I usually wear the tin foil hat in these debates, but I must concede in this case: the eavesdropping phone theory in particular is difficult to substantiate, from a technical standpoint.

For one, a user can check this themselves today with basic local network traffic monitors or packet sniffing tools. Even heavily compressed audio data will stand out in the log, no matter how it’s encrypted, streamed, batched or what have you.

To get a sense of what I mean, run wireshark and give a wake phrase command to see what that looks like. Now imagine trying to obfuscate that type of transmission for audio longer than 2 seconds, and repeatedly throughout a day.

Even assuming local audio inference and processing on a completely compromised device (rooted/jailbroken, disabled sandboxing/SIP, unrestricted platform access, the works) most phones will just struggle to do that recording and processing indeterminately without a noticeable impact on energy and data use.

I’m sure advertising companies would love to collect that much raw candid data. It would seem quite a challenge to do so quietly, however, and given the apparent lack of evidence, is thus unlikely to have been implemented at any kind of scale.

[–] Fungah@lemmy.world 9 points 9 months ago (8 children)

My own theory is that they tokenize key words and phrases with an AI so that they're not sending the actual audio data. Then it's stored in a form some AI can parse but isn't technically user data so they can skirt legislation around that.

A tokenized collection of key phrases omitting delimiters in text format is going be much, much less than audio, or a transcript.

[–] Septimaeus@infosec.pub 2 points 9 months ago (7 children)

That certainly would make the data smuggling easier. What about battery though? I assume that requires inference and at least rudimentary processing.

How would a background process do this in real time on a mobile device without leaving traceable evidence like cpu time?

[–] steveman_ha@lemmy.world 5 points 9 months ago (2 children)

What if its not streaming? What if its just cached for future access, e.g. next time the user opens the app (and network traffic spikes anyways) maybe?

[–] Mossheart@lemmy.ca 3 points 9 months ago

Or plugs in their phone at night, bypassing energy use concerns?

[–] Septimaeus@infosec.pub 2 points 9 months ago

That’s possible too, and in general I’d think a foreground application currently in use alleviates most of the technical restrictions mentioned (read: why we never install FB).

But again we must assume some uncommon device privileges and we still haven’t solved the problem of background energy usage required to record and/or process a real time feed.

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