this post was submitted on 27 Jan 2024
21 points (72.3% liked)
United States | News & Politics
7212 readers
464 users here now
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
That's entirely beside the point. You think the fascists are more likely to give you ranked choice than the neo-libs? This line of thinking is nonsensical past superficial idealism. What's your alternative, the greater evil? You think that's going to magically make the ever-so-sightly-further-left corporate party turn progressive?
How'd that work after 2016? If the wake-up-call strategy was going to work, that would've been the time. And oh look, we got a geriatric neo-liberal. Fun.
I'm not going to wager a potential fascist dictatorship against the pipe dream that choosing not to vote is a cheat code that what, unlocks the secret actual Leftist candidate? What's the praxis here? This is like sovcit levels of batshit copium fantasy.
Edit: Downvotes, but no practical alternatives. Idealistic circle jerking.
The least you can do is not vote for the status quo, but you won't even do that.
Voting for anything but one of the top two parties is pointless, voting for the lesser evil is marginally better than voting for the greater evil, not voting is tacit approval of the greater evil. Please tell me, exactly, how does "not voting for the status quo" improve anything? Not rhetorical. I'm asking.
I need to tell you something: perfect is the mortal enemy of better. Both options are bad. One is objectively worse, if you don't recognize that I assume you're just part of Putin's Geopolitik poisoning of the left, whether you know it or not.
Smugly refusing to participate doesn't make the options better, it just makes it easier for the worse one to win.
People who can't make a realistic choice are far worse. When you represent an itty bitty fraction of the populace, you don't have the right to dictate that policy be far-left. If you choose to not participate or to vote third party under FPTP, you are only hurting yourself by giving up what little influence you had. That's just how democracy works.
No one is ever wholly responsible if the right wins, obviously. Wins are always based on a broad spectrum coalition, whereas losses are based on a coalition just barely failing. Modern US presidential elections are always close. Still, that doesn't mean a potential coalition member gets to dictate coalition policy, especially when they're on the extremes.
Barring the demise of FPTP, you will never get what you want. Instead, politicians just learn you will never vote for them and they should look to more conservative constituencies. That, of course, means policies you don't like.
It's called compromise, and yes it is how a functioning democracy works.
Huh. That's odd. Democrats have been trending to the left.
As it stands, I think US government badly needs some changes. FPTP is terrible, too many officials (SCOTUS, Congress, president) serve until they're at death's door, the electoral college never worked as intended, and money has too much influence. But this is all fixable, even if it's hard. Those will change things, not staying home and pretending that a politician gives a rat's ass about you if you refuse to turn out every time you don't get your way.
Stop acting like a state propagandist then. Stop suggesting that neo-libs and fascists are identical just because they're both bad. -10 > -100, even though both are negative.
Lack of nuance is evidence of idiocy or ulterior motives. I was being generous by assuming you had ulterior motives.
Ironic.
Voting for your interests isn't "refusing to participate". It's the bare minimum in a democracy. It sounds like you've chosen to participate in a way which is counter to your own interests, and you're calling out others for not following your flawed logic.
Look, I know that many of the candidates I vote for are long-shot candidates. It's highly unlikely that they will win. But if I don't vote for them, then I'm part of the problem. I'm helping to make it even less likely that they win.
Being part of the winning team feels good, but politics isn't like football or hockey. This is an important civic responsibility.
Sure, if you live in a state where the result is obvious, then yes vote third party. But you know that they're not going to win, and the only thing that accomplishes is visibility and possibly funding. You know that at the end of the day, the office will be won by one of the big two.
My opposition is to broadly advocating that for everyone. Too many people do live in swing states to be flippantly both-sidesing an election where Project 2025 is on the table.
Do you live in a swing state?
I do
Do you live in a swing state? Because I don't. As far as I see it, voting third party won't have any effect on the election, but might at least signal that I want change. It's not like the popular vote matters in this country.
I live in a blue state. Using that same logic, voting for Biden here is pointless, because the state's going to go to Biden anyway.
Significantly? Hah, no. Mathematically? Yes, absolutely. Extremely unlikely vs. "Oh, you wanted to keep voting? Lol"
Which is? I'm waiting.
Use every tool I have in the way it can be used. Voting for the lesser of two evils does not preclude literally any other action you could want to do.
You think Trump would do less Palestinian genocide? He was pretty open about being very pro-Israel and very anti-Palestine. Genocide Trump would be substantially worse for Gaza, and also Ukraine too. That's what "lesser of two evils" means: yes, Biden is awful, but the alternative is worse.
Until you can show me an actionable alternative, I assume you support increased genocide of Palestinians and genocide of Ukrainians. Because it's a binary choice, and refusal to choose against any option is tacit approval of every option.
Voting is one more thing than you.
Okay? So you're uniformed or just illiterate? Your beliefs mean nothing to me, the evidence already suggests you're a Russian State propagandist, or you've fallen for one.
It's very simple math. If you can't grasp it, maybe you should change your username to just "box".
So long as you continue to antagonize every leftist who disagrees with you, all you'll ever have is impotent idealism. What exactly is your plan of action? Where is your grassroots, your revolution, if every mathematically and politically literate leftist is a fascist to you?
I'm substantially left of center. Who do you think the proletariat are? How do you expect to mobilize them? How do you get three hundred million people to march in unison, when you call them all genocidal fascists? If they are all fascists, how do you ever hope to win?
Except you're compromised by propaganda, specifically designed to weaken the left (and the US) in order to empower Russian oligarchs. I don't expect you to propose any actual action. I expect you to continue to insist that letting Putin's puppet win will somehow rid the world of billionaire oligarchs.
You still haven't provided any actions. Deflect deflect deflect, always complain that everyone else isn't doing enough. Call them liberals, fascists, declare they're not pure enough. Other them to draw attention away from yourself. Emotional, blaming, divisive language, anything to distract from your own lack of actionable content.
No more deflection, no more distractions. You tell me, specifically, what your alternative action is. Tell me how it's, materially, impossible to do while also voting against Project 2025.
Or, prove me right by continuing to deflect. Go silent, or say I'm not worth informing, or you don't have to explain yourself to some [insert political slur here]. Show the readers actual praxis, or show them that all you have is deflection. Your choice.
You've made your choice then.
No actual plans, just deflection and calling people who disagree with you "fascists".
It's one step higher than literally nothing, so I'm doing better than you so far.
Says the empty_box providing literally nothing but deflection.
It's a simple question: what's your alternative action, and how is it incompatible with voting against Project 2025?
Jesus Christ dude, you can't even name one thing. Name literally ONE THING. You're trying to Uno reverse your own deflection you transparent shill. Name one effective political action you take that's incompatible with voting against Project 2025.
I asked first.
Another deflection.
Least obvious Capitalist troll. You're making us actual leftists look bad. If you are a troll, eat shit. If you are a leftist, do better, cuz you're an embarrassment. Either way, I'm out. Grow up, learn something, anything. Cuz bitching and name calling ain't it kid.