this post was submitted on 15 Jun 2023
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Programming

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After the (temporary) defederation announcement of earlier i checked the Lemmy repo to see if there was already a ticket on the federation limiting option like Mastodon's that people mentioned Lemmy doesn't yet have. Not only i didn't find it, i also saw that there's about 200+ open tickets of variable importance. Also saw that it's maintained mostly by the two main devs, the difference in commits between them and even the next contributors is vast. This is normal and in other circumstances it'd grow organically, but considering the huge influx of users lately, which will likely take months to slow down, they just don't have the same time to invest on this, and many things risk being neglected. I'm a sysadmin, haven't coded anything big in at least a decade and a half beyond small helper scripts in Bash or Python, and haven't ever touched Rust, so can't help there, but maybe some of you Rust aficionados can give some time to help essentially all of Lemmy. The same can be said of Kbin of course, although that's PHP, and there is exacerbated by it being just the single dev.

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[–] WatTyler@lemmy.sdf.org 7 points 1 year ago (8 children)

May I ask you more about your experience attempting to learn? I don't know if it's because I can program but eight years seems a long time. In return, I'd be happy to offer you a few pieces for advice that could help?

[–] Nyanix@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago (7 children)

That's so kind of you!
I started by aiming for front-end web dev. I learned HTML & CSS (I know, we're not PROGRAMMING yet). At the time, that's all I was hearing it'd take to get into the role. Then it was "you should probably know some Javascript," and I wasn't ready for how big of a jump that was. By the time I started understanding it, it became "learn jQuery," which I learned and used for a couple of small websites, then came the libraries...
"AngularJS is the future" well now I need to learn Git, compiling, CMD...
ReactJS starts becoming a thing and I say "seriously? I've learned enough of these things, quit moving the goalpost, React isn't going to stick around"
Yeah...it definitely stuck around...but as an Open Source nerd, I got super excited by VueJS and started learning that. No jobs in that apparently, aaaand I no longer want to do web dev, especially since I never reached the point of enjoying coding, it was always a means to an end.

So there were two major issues for me: \

  1. I never focused on one language enough to truly LEARN to code, it was a constant sense of "I'm not keeping up". I may be able to write the syntax, I might know the basics about functions, vars, and looping, but never really got using it in a super practical sense other than to try a couple of personal challenging projects that my ADHD arse couldn't ever stick with. \
  2. Me and coding speak and think very differently. Stick with me here, I know, it's a language, but the way something should be written and formatted are different from how I think it should be, and this is a very hard one to explain to folks. The best example I can give is that I might say like (and this is a poor example because remember, I don't code and I'm not doing any active coding projects) \

var person = { userInput }
var num;

function findNumberOfLetters (person) {
    num = length(person);
}
function response(person, num) {
    findNumberOfLetters(person);
    console.log("Hello " + person + "! Did you know that your name has " + num + " letters in it? Numbers are rad!");
}


I'm sure I did things wrong, but again, this is just for the sake of example. So, I write something like this thinking that it's nicely structured and easy to read, and inevitably won't work. I pass this to a friend, and the answer seems to always be a less structured, more nested code. So for this example, something like \


(function response(userInput) {
    console.log("Hello " + userInput + "! Did you know that your name has " + length(userInput) + " letters in it? Numbers are rad!");
})


Obviously their answer is shorter and this isn't exactly a complicated program, but for some reason, making the thing that provides a response to the user to do any of the logic feels wrong and messy to me. It's a really hard thing to explain, I hope this makes some amount of sense, but I just process things very differently than code does, and it just ends up really incompatible. I'll beat my head for weeks over-complicating something because I want it to "be clean" only for someone I know to come up with something that actually works within seconds.
This isn't to compare my skills against them, it's to say that I'm thinking about it wrong, I'm organizing it wrong.
That said, knowing how code functions has helped me to know enough to be dangerous and apply it in other ways, such as building Azure Logic Apps to manage ticket intake, or building alert monitoring. So it's come in very handy in its own way, I just don't have to competency to actually make any contributions to Open Source projects, especially since I don't write in two of the coolest languages that I wish I could learn: Python and Rust.

No pity party here, I love what I do and I don't intend to change careers to coding, but I do end up feeling helpless in the face of instances like this where I wish so badly to contribute to a project that I care so strongly about and want to see thrive. I know there's other ways to contribute, such as providing graphics, UI, documentation, financial, hosting, etc. but coding always seems to be the most in need to keep up with demand, and with more and more projects coming out all the time, the more programmers are in need to see them through.

[–] WatTyler@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Thank you so much. This is a terrific insight. A little later I'm going to sit down at my PC and type something up I think will help.

I'd ask you as a fellow ADHDer ✊ if I forget to please remind me to write up my response 😂

EDIT: Response now posted here

[–] l3mming@lemmy.fmhy.ml 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I'm a programmer of 25+ years. Everything written above is spot on. I too started with C and I still love that thing like my first born. It is so immensely satisfying writing something in C that a) works b) doesn't leak memory and c) passes all your unit tests. Nothing else compares.

I too looked at React and hated it with a passion. Then I saw VueJS and kind of liked it. Then I saw Nuxt and now I've gone all in on NuxtJS. It is so simple and well-thought out compared to the shambles that is React. It's very satisfying to use. Rust is next for me.

I've learnt well over 10 languages over the years. Some well, some well enough. Learning a language is bit like reading a book. If you're a third of the way in and it's doing nothing for you, don't waste your time. Grab another one off the shelf and try that. Don't put pressure on yourself - it should be enjoyable, not stressful. Just chip away at it bit by bit and enjoy the little discoveries.

Don't worry so much about your coding style. From the examples you gave, yours is much easier to follow than the second one. And, you know what? Most 'senior programmers' I've worked with have been bad coders. The bar is not as high as it may appear.

Sounds like you're currently a systems guy with a bit of programming skills. That's an awesome combination to have, and mirrors my own all those years ago. The best bit is your have the freedom to learn programming as a hobby, without the pressure. Enjoy the process. Watch some videos by Sebastian Lague on Youtube, they're magical.

Best of luck with your programming journey. It is an immensely enjoyable hobby, and ridiculously useful skill to have.

[–] WatTyler@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thank you for taking the time to read my response. I really appreciate having the approval of someone with decades of experience (which, I very much don't). Out of curiosity, when you started programming would have been the early days of Java, C++ etc. and the start of the 'OOP revolution'. Can you recall why you started with C, when OOP was very much en vogue?

[–] l3mming@lemmy.fmhy.ml 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That's a very good question. Java and OOP really were new and exciting things when I first entered the workforce. But, I first started programming long before Uni and joining the workforce. I first started programming on one of these: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellivision using an 'Intelliputer'. Then I learnt Logo on an Apple IIe. Then GW-BASIC on MSDOS, then PASCAL, then C. Then I stuck with C for a long time, including most of Uni.

So, by the time Java and OOP came along, I already had 10+ years of procedural programming behind me. That actually made it really difficult for me to to learn OOP. It was some weird paradigm that didn't align with anything I knew. So I gave Java a mostly wide berth for as long as I could and focused instead on Perl, then PHP.

Both of those ended up getting OOP abstractions crammed into them, so eventually I did end up learning OOP, but it was more through osmosis. By then Java had largely come and gone. As much as it saddens me, Perl too largely died. That left me with PHP which, to be fair, was becoming quite a nice language by then.

By now I was a devout OOP developer and really enjoyed the OOP changes to PHP. Python, being object based, was the next logical choice. Javascript was still a pile of poo. Then Javascript got OOP abstractions too and suddenly was all the rage. Then they started putting the frontend on the backend (Node) and I was truly lost at sea. To me it it was twice as much work to build something (API + frontend) compared to the old server side rendering. It seemed way to much effort just to avoid a page load.

Nevertheless, I tried React and I hated it, it made no sense - though Javascript was looking a lot nicer by then. So I held off a little longer on adding 'frontend dev' to my resume, then NuxtJS came along and here we are.

So, long story short, I've been doing this forever. I technically review team code all day, every day. I know good code, I know bad code and have seen shit that still gives me nightmares.

The funny thing is, I have written dozens of cool tools that I think are pretty damn clever, yet I have never open sourced anything. My reason is the same as yours: Because I still don't think any of it is good enough.

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