this post was submitted on 22 Feb 2024

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‘Putin will spark a third world war if Russia claims victory in Ukraine’: Ukrainian steel magnate Yuriy Ryzhenkov warns of global fallout from the Kremlin’s war (www.telegraph.co.uk)

submitted 8 months ago by 0x815@feddit.de to c/europe@feddit.de

131 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Cross-posted from: https://feddit.de/post/9202260

Vladimir Putin will spark a third world war if the Russian president is allowed to declare victory in Ukraine, according to the boss of the country’s biggest private employer.

Yuriy Ryzhenkov, chief executive of Metinvest, which ran the sprawling Azovstal steelworks that became the site of a relentless Russian assault at the start of the 2022 invasion, warned of the consequences of a Kremlin victory.

“I don’t believe that if Ukraine fails, Putin will stop,” he said in an interview ahead of the two year anniversary of the war in Ukraine. “The Baltic states, Poland, Romania, Hungary, Slovakia are the next targets.”

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[–] gian@lemmy.grys.it 10 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I don’t see the parallel, because so far, Russia and Germany have literally one thing in common.

Two in fact: that they illegally annexed part of other countries and that they breach treaties they signed.

You’re extrapolating that several highly unlikely events will just so happen to occur the same way they did the first time.

No, I am only pointing out that what you suggest was already tried and failed exactly because at the time they wanted to preserve peace, whatever the cost.

It was already tried to concede to the small demands in exchange of quiet living, we know how it ended.

Your entire argument could just as easily be applied to america in like 4 different decades between WW2 and now, yet not once did America start a world war as a result.

Ok, I documented what I say, care to do the same ?

The situation in Russia is wildly different from 1930s Germany, and trying to declare them to be the same is far too reductive to be useful analysis.

Different yes, but the end result is the same.

Also, Putin invaded more of Ukraine because it is literally on the way to Crimea, and owning just the peninsula is weird. The entirety of the invasion consists of the coast of a single large bay.

So, what part of your country are you willing to give up to your neighbour ?

There is no logical reason to think that Putin is the next Hitler.

Except that he is doing exactly the same, at the moment.

He literally just wants a region that has historically been highly important to Russia/USSR. It’s like if America were currently invading Texas, because we lost it to Mexico for 20 years and want it back.

Man, I am from Italy. Following your reasoning big part of Europe, all the Mediterranean sea and a good part of the Middle East would be Italian since all these territories were part of the Roman Empire.

[+] Thief_of_Crows@lemmy.ml -10 points 8 months ago (1 children)

One peninsula is entirely different than all of Europe. 1000 years ago is also entirely different than 30 years ago. Crucially to the argument, Russia is actually capable of taking it by force. Just like America could take Texas back. If Russia had made any move on another place, I wouldn't be saying this. Like, consider how many different places you've brought up that Germany had its eyes on invading around that time. Compare it to the fact that you can't name a 2nd place Russia is trying to to take. They're not trying to take all of Ukraine. They're not even trying to take 1/5 of Ukraine.

Comparing them to Germany is utterly absurd, figure out a better analogy or move on.

The west got too aggressive in their attempts to influence Ukraine, and now Russia is fighting back. Now we need to back off and rethink our diplomacy.

The 4 decades I was thinking of were the Korean war, Vietnam war, and 2000 - 2020. All of them featured America invading a place (for far more dubious reasons than Russia has now, BTW), followed by them categorically NOT deciding to take over the world. Though you could probably say it about literally every stretch of 10 years dating back to 1945.

[–] gian@lemmy.grys.it 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

One peninsula is entirely different than all of Europe. 1000 years ago is also entirely different than 30 years ago. Crucially to the argument, Russia is actually capable of taking it by force. Just like America could take Texas back. If Russia had made any move on another place, I wouldn’t be saying this. Like, consider how many different places you’ve brought up that Germany had its eyes on invading around that time. Compare it to the fact that you can’t name a 2nd place Russia is trying to to take.

Wrong. Alaska. Russia passed a law recently to that declare illegal the sale to the US. Not that they will ever try to get it back by force anyway.

But it seems that you are not understanding the point.
Hitler, while annexing all the places before WWII, said exactly what you are saying now: "this is my last request/annexation". And while of course we could like to think that Putin will do not do the same think, what he is doing is the same thing: in 2014 they take Crimea and said "we will stop here", then in 2022 they invanded the rest of Ukraine.

And you know what ? In all al this, I have the proof of what Putin did and I can infer what maybe could happen while you have no proof that Putin will not try to pull the same trick another time somewhere else. (Belarus of any of the old Baltic state for example)

You don't stop a bully thinking "this is the last time he bullied me", you stop a bully beating him so bad that he don't want to bully you, or anyone else, anymore.

They’re not trying to take all of Ukraine. They’re not even trying to take 1/5 of Ukraine.

So I suppose you are ready to give up 1/5 of your country, am I correct ? Yes or no. (funny how nobody will ever directly answer this question...)

Comparing them to Germany is utterly absurd, figure out a better analogy or move on.

Is you say so...

The west got too aggressive in their attempts to influence Ukraine, and now Russia is fighting back. Now we need to back off and rethink our diplomacy.

I don't understand what the hell are you thinking. Ukraine is a sovereign state that decide to ask for some things to Europe, it is none of Russia business. To enter into EU and NATO a state should ask, and Ukraine is free to do so. Maybe if Russia was better...

The 4 decades I was thinking of were the Korean war, Vietnam war, and 2000 - 2020. All of them featured America invading a place (for far more dubious reasons than Russia has now, BTW), followed by them categorically NOT deciding to take over the world. Though you could probably say it about literally every stretch of 10 years dating back to 1945.

Aside the Second Gulf War (and the supposed WOMD never found) US don't started any of them. Not to say that they have not done their share of despicable things of course.

But I suppose that you agree that the fact that someone once did something is not a justification for other to do something now.

[–] Thief_of_Crows@lemmy.ml -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Of course I can't prove that he won't do it in the future, did you think that was possible? Hitler did not do it once, he did it many times. I am choosing to believe Putin that the first one is the only one, because it makes a ton of sense for Russia to want to control that territory.

Wait, you think the US hasn't started literally every war they've been in since 1945? Then why are they on enemy soil literally every time? The only one that it's defensible for you to be wrong about is the Iraq war, because most people don't know about all the war crimes we were doing over there in the 90s. How exactly did the Vietnamese provoke us from all the way across an ocean though? Or Afghanistan from even farther?

Obviously I wouldbt give up 1/5 of my country. Is that supposed to be a gotcha? I was saying the fact that they're not even trying to take 20% of one country makes it pretty outlandish to claim they're on the path to world domination.

[–] gian@lemmy.grys.it 1 points 8 months ago

Of course I can’t prove that he won’t do it in the future, did you think that was possible? Hitler did not do it once, he did it many times. I am choosing to believe Putin that the first one is the only one,

Also Putin is doing more than once.

because it makes a ton of sense for Russia to want to control that territory.

Maybe, but it is not their territory. And the fact that it make sense does not make it right. But I somewhat see your logic: you are stronger so you can get what you want. Gotcha.

Obviously I wouldbt give up 1/5 of my country. Is that supposed to be a gotcha?

That phrase alone make me lose all the residual respect I could have for you.

I was saying the fact that they’re not even trying to take 20% of one country makes it pretty outlandish to claim they’re on the path to world domination.

It. Don't. Matter. How. Much. They. Take.

It is the concept. Too hard to understand ?