this post was submitted on 17 Apr 2024
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patch for this unless this is intended behavior now? I would have submitted a diff but I can't build lemmy on my system to test any changes :(
What's wrong with not listing pronouns?
goes against our primary goal of cisicide
"What's wrong with not knowing how to adress people in a way that offers the absolute bare minimum of respect and avoids outright hate speech?"
You can avoid pronouns entirely and just use the person's name or refer to them as "that person over there" or "the poster you are replying to" etc., but it's a lot easier when pronouns are provided. Most languages have these things for a reason.
Cool that you have this view, but while the world is the way it is, having pronouns makes it easier over the internet
hey cis shit, fuck you
Now you need to define “gender neutral” in a way that isn’t transphobic.
Gender neutral language simply doesn't have gender specific pronouns. It treats everyone the same, regardless of their gender identity. I don't see how that could be considered transphobic.
If anything it is cisphobic, as the default "they/them" (as in the example above) is used primarily by trans people, while the typically cis pronouns "he/him" and "she/her" are not used.
That definition of gender neutral is the exact one used to defend “theying” everyone despite their very visible pronouns.
They/them is not gender neutral.
Read Trans Liberation please.
They/them is absolutely gender neutral, as it can be used for any person, regardless of their gender. See? I did it in this sentence.
Take my example from before: "A person is walking down the street. I approach them, asking for their pronouns. They smile and tell me that's none of my business." This works, regardless of the person's gender identity.
Now use different pronouns: "A person is walking down the street. I approach him, asking for his pronouns. He smiles and tells me that's none of my business." This one only works if the person uses the pronouns he/him. (Btw, shouldn't pronouns be sets of 3 like "they/them/their", "he/him/his" or "she/her/her"?)
Gender neutral language isn't about not recognizing peoples' genders, its about omitting irrelevant information. Having gender specific pronouns draws attention to the genders of the people referred to, even if the point of the sentence is not about gender. At some point during the development of the English language, the consensus emerged that it is important to always know/mention the gender identity of everyone involved.
This is an arbitrary selection of a subset of a person's identity however. For example, we don't have pronouns indicating whether people are parents or not, or indicating their marital status.
Actually, we did have the latter with "Miss" and "Mrs", until we decided that this distinction isn't very inclusive, introducing the neutral "Ms", equivalent to the "Mr".
Point is, you could make up all sorts of pronouns including every aspect of a person's identity. I'm saying that is neat and all, but if I just want to construct a sentence about a person going to the store, I might not know or want to include any part of their identity, be it their gender, marital status or age.
Sus. Again, read Trans Liberation. No investigation, no right to speak.
This isn't about gender, my point would still stand if transgender people didn't exist and he/him and she/her were all the pronouns we had. It is about identity, which parts of it we focus on, and how much information we subliminally reveal or require each time we talk about someone.
Gender is just a small part of identity, yet it is arbitrarily the one thing dominating and determining pronouns in the english language (and many others of course).
But I don't feel like arguing any further, maybe you don't understand, or maybe you just don't even read what I'm saying.
But here's an idea: How about you come up with some arguments instead of lazily referring to some perceived authority?
And again, trans erasure. I also don’t feel like arguing, which is why I’m all but begging you to read a fucking book from an expert instead of continuing to dig into your position.
This is the Hexbear comm, where we talk about Hexbear. Hexbear has long required users to provide pronouns or use the default ("none/use name"). We've been over your stupid, boring arguments multiple years ago, and your side fucking lost back then. This is not up for debate even among actual Hexbear users, let alone obnoxious lemmitor shitheads from other instances, like yourself. We're not requiring users of other instances to provide pronouns anyway, just Hexbear users, so I don't have any idea why you even fucking care.
I guess what I'm saying is, fuck off.
sorry just giving you my point of the view in the situation.
Friend, you really should have just read the room. Nobody was asking for your opinion about this longstanding aspect of the site (not only a policy but an actual coded feature). You seem mostly cool based on your other posts, so just let this go, okay? You're not gonna be changing any minds here.
the only thing im here trying to convince people of is to vote for marianne williamson
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy: