this post was submitted on 09 Jul 2024
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And Finally...
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As a xtian raised with the idea of Satan. I spose it is understandable why you may feel others think that way. But you are incorrect. To an atheist and in fact all non-Abrahamic religions
Yes it was. To non xtians (etc) The whole story of Satan is about accountability. To such an obvious extent, it seems odd to have to explain it to you.
The whole xtian idea of Satan informing mankind of the knowledge of good and evil is a story about mankind not being accountable for sin. But instead, failing to resist the temptation of a 3rd party, the devil. To anyone not raised on your ideal of satan. It is an attempt to reject the Idea you have evil thoughts and ideas. But instead the suggestion you just lack the faith to resist evil injected into your mind by a 3rd party. So yes, I raised accountability. This is why the whole idea of rebelling against God being a bad thing. Seems to be more refusal of accountability.
I know it is hard. But for one minute, remember you are actually an atheist. You will consider this a stupid argument. But that is the bias of religion. But you consider faith in Oden, Thor, Zeus, Poseidon and the list can go on for 1000s. All to be stupid. I just add one more.
Try to see the story of Satan as for example the story of Oden hanging from the tree giving knowledge of runic writing to mankind. And it becomes clear why I see your story as describing an authoritarian god. How else do you describe a god who refuses to let his children gain knowledge. Basically a refusal to let children grow.
Yes, to the rest of us it is about accountability. To us its not is evil acceptable or not. Of course, it is not. But then, nor is refusing to accept the ideas are your own. And as such, if you have them. You have to be responsible for not acting on them.
As for being bigoted. The amount of times I have had American xtians when I lived there. Question why I don't do evil things because I am an atheist. A concept I have never heard from a European xtian in my whole life.
Yeah the whole idea these people only refuse to harm folks because they think god will punish them. Is fucking scary.
I don't harm others because they are people with feelings. The whole idea that some people cannot comprehend that without the thought of a heaven or hell. These people are not good.
If we aren't accountable for our sin, then Jesus would have never had to die for us. God could have just had Satan pay the price instead.
I have thought about the odin argument, but I find all other religions and belief systems less compelling than Christianity, which is why I chose to become a Christian.
Runic writing is not the ability to intentionally commit evil. So that story falls apart. And if God refuses us to gain knowledge, He would have never given us the choice on whether or not to commit evil.
We don't harm people because we have a moral compass. For example, the Nazis had to desensitise people to violence in order to have them commit atrocities. So we all have fundamental morality. I believe that everyone has one because that is our knowledge of good and evil. Because God exists, right and wrong exist, and we know the difference. So it doesn't matter what religion (or lack of) you follow, that knowledge is there. In the same way, people who deny climate change are still affected by it- because believing in something or not believing doesn't make it more or less real. So believing in God or not doesn't make God, and the difference of good and evil any less real. So it makes perfect sense why plenty of Atheists are good, moral people.
As for heaven and hell, good works doesn't get you into heaven. There are people who are far better people than me who are in hell, because they trusted in their works. Accepting God's perfect sacrifice does.
Your first sentence is a common issue xtians face. You are making an argument to an atheist using your stories as evidence. To my it's like saying faster than light travel exists because captain Picard did it.
It in no way suggests to anyone but xtians that you are accountable for your sins. And worse, suggests you think someone else was punished rather than you. And when you add the whole concept of original sin. Very much indicates sin is not actually something you consider to be purely related to your own personal action. So sorta impossible to convince non xtians that your understanding of accountability is well-formed.
As for your last sentence. It is rather odd you can honestly sprout crap like that after your first comment was having a go at me for calling god authoritarian.
You believe he makes people suffer for eternity for failing to love him. We consider human insane and criminal for that behaviour.
Didn't know you were asking for evidence 😂 In this circumstance we are talking about the same story and same character - Satan. The difference that I believe he is real and you don't here is irrelevant.
If people don't want to be with God, God respects their choice.
You may genuinely believe that. But it is in no way what your religion teaches. The whole history of your religions desire to spread. Is based on saving non Christian souls from suffering.
And even a cursory look at the history of Christianity. Shows a great deal of earthly suffering caused by that unprofitable and frankly rather daft idea.
I'll give you a break. Few religions do not have this inbuilt punish,ent for unbelievers. Its sorta the point of religion to grow and form a powerful force. Yeah you may find that idea insulting. But it is simply the truth of history. Religions are lead by humans who have human goals.
The only religion that is actually openly opposed to it is Wiccan. And honestly that is a religion created in the 1940 by people looking at the mess other created. So hardly less about human goals. Just nicer humans.