this post was submitted on 14 Jul 2024
268 points (96.2% liked)

Memes

45132 readers
1493 users here now

Rules:

  1. Be civil and nice.
  2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] supertrucker@lemmy.ml -5 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Not everyone will become and entrepreneur. Some people will always work for others. People need to put down Das Kapital and read a history book

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 month ago

You can read both Capital and history books. You should do both.

[–] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 month ago

If you read Das Kapital you'd understand why you just said nonsense that wasn't really relevant to it

[–] JayDee@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

There were times when individuals did not work for someone higher than them on a pecking order, though that model is physically not possible in an industrial society, I think.

That being said, hierarchies can be made voluntary rather than enforced by threat of violence, and I'd argue that requiring all servitude to be uncoerced would lead to a better future.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The words "hierarchy, coercion, and voluntary" are vague. What an Anarchist considers hierarchy, coercion, and voluntary may not be what a Marxist sees those as.

Ultimately, it is important to recognize that democratizing production and the state is a vast improvement on present Capitalism, and can better serve the interests of the workers.

[–] JayDee@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 month ago

Hierarchy, being a chain of command in which an individual above, privvy to more information, gives you instructions to follow. This includes military organizations, but is just as applicable to a doctor-patient relationship.

Coercion, meaning the threat of retaliation, through physical force, revoking of freedoms or privileges, or denial of resources.

Voluntary, meaning of one's own means, with no coercion or realization of coercion, with the clear option to opt out being present whenever possible.

This does not leave things in question, I believe. Currently, we all operate within hierarchies at work with explicit threats of destitution being held over our heads, through the denial of currency. Meanwhile, there is no coercion from your physician despite it still being hierarchical in nature, because the hierarchy is entirely based on trust and is voluntary.