this post was submitted on 15 Aug 2023
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Lemmy.World Announcements

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Earlier, after review, we blocked and removed several communities that were providing assistance to access copyrighted/pirated material, which is currently not allowed per Rule #1 of our Code of Conduct. The communities that were removed due to this decision were:

We took this action to protect lemmy.world, lemmy.world's users, and lemmy.world staff as the material posted in those communities could be problematic for us, because of potential legal issues around copyrighted material and services that provide access to or assistance in obtaining it.

This decision is about liability and does not mean we are otherwise hostile to any of these communities or their users. As the Lemmyverse grows and instances get big, precautions may happen. We will keep monitoring the situation closely, and if in the future we deem it safe, we would gladly reallow these communities.

The discussions that have happened in various threads on Lemmy make it very clear that removing the communites before we announced our intent to remove them is not the level of transparency the community expects, and that as stewards of this community we need to be extremely transparent before we do this again in the future as well as make sure that we get feedback around what the planned changes are, because lemmy.world is yours as much as it is ours.

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[–] ttmrichter@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Piracy is not theft. It is infringement. There are two different words in the laws used to describe these because they are two different things. Here's the simple (and subtly incomplete) way to distinguish them.

When theft has happened, the property is somehow unavailable to the owner. If I have a pen and someone steals it, I cannot pick up my pen and write. If I have a hundred dollars and someone steals it, I can't take my wife out to that special dinner I had planned. And so on. You'll note (as with the hundred dollars) that the property in question doesn't have to even be physical. That hundred dollars could just be a number in my bank account that's now 100 lower. It remains theft because that property is now no longer available to me, the rightful owner.

Infringement, conversely, does not remove the ability to use the property from the owner. If you produce a song and I make a copy of it, you still have the song. You can still play it. You can still try to sell it. You can do whatever you like with it. I have not removed it from you. If you have an idea for a product and I use industrial espionage to get that idea for my own use, you can still use it. It has not been removed from you.

Now what has potentially been removed from you in infringement, which is why there is both civil and criminal infringement, is the possibility of profiting from the work you put into the property. If I take your song and make it freely available, you can't sell it. You haven't lost the song, but you've lost the ability to pay rent or eat for sales of it. If I take your product idea and sell it cheaper (because I didn't pay the R&D costs for it, say), you haven't lost the idea, but you've lost the ability to recoup the expenses it took to get the idea into a usable state. So I'm not saying that piracy is always good, nor am I saying it's always bad. I'm saying it isn't theft.

"But if you get it without paying $10 (to pick a number out of thin air) for that album, you've stolen that $10 from me!" No. No I haven't. Unless you want to also make the risible claim that if I choose not to have the album at all I've also stolen that $10 from you. You never had the $10. Ever. It was never your property. Ergo it cannot be theft if I merely don't give it to you, no matter what the circumstances leading to that decision not to give it to you. I've infringed, sure. But to call it theft is just plain wrong. And I don't mean "wrong" in a moral sense. I mean "wrong" in the very technical literal sense.

[–] jpeps@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thanks for the distinction, I enjoyed reading your message. I would still say that in a colloquial manner it's not reaching that far to call piracy stealing, but I take your point.

I wouldn't try to make the point you said about not paying $10 being theft itself, I agree that that isn't a valid argument. What I do feel is that to say "your work is worth nothing to me" while simultaneously consuming and enjoying it, is hypocritical and similar to other less favoured actions like trying to pay someone in 'exposure'. It does largely have damaging effects on wider communities.

I agree with you that there's nuance and that I probably came on a little strong in my original comment. When it comes to TV, films, games, and music though, which is what I'm guessing is the vast majority of piracy discussed here, I don't think it's unreasonable to pay or to otherwise just not consume whatever content. Again I understand there's more than just those 4 things, and even within those listed categories there may be things like games and films that are not even purchasable. I'm not trying to suggest we should all be perfect and piracy should never happen or whatever, it's just odd to me that it seems to get so much defense that it almost feels like the consensus is that it's something to be proud of.

[–] ttmrichter@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

in a colloquial manner it’s not reaching that far to call piracy stealing

That's because IP holders have done their job of muddying the distinction well.