this post was submitted on 26 May 2024
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No Stupid Questions

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I'm not sure if this is the right community for this question, but it says "no stupid question" so here goes. I'm an Israeli who now lives in the US, but I am considering permanently residing in the US or elsewhere (perhaps somewhere in Europe or Canada) because I've become kinda disillusioned with Israel for a variety of reasons (the war in Gaza being one of them, the erosion of democracy by Likud being another, and etc) but is that cowardly to leave? Should I go back and try to change society or should I just leave for good? Thanks for your time.

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[–] lurch@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 months ago (3 children)

i personally think whoever still lives in israel or palestine and maybe even has kids there, after 80 years of conflict, is crazy. it's basically "the badlands" and i think you should cut ties and settle down in a safer environment.

i don't think the US or Canada is the perfect place to live, but it's definitely better and safer than israel. i think EU, New Zealand, Australia and Britain would be even better, but you already live in the US and moving to another nation is often a lot of work, so maybe it's best to stay there. The differences in quality of life are very small IMO.

[–] ashkenaziisraeli@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago

Yeah I gave birth to a son here in the US, which I think is a better environment for him than Israel personally.

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[–] blargerer@kbin.social 4 points 3 months ago (2 children)

You need to do whats best for yourself, but it sounds like Israel would be a better place with your voice in it.

[–] NeatNit@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 3 months ago

It's not super relevant but Israel doesn't allow offshore voting, the only way to vote if you live abroad is to physically travel to Israel on voting day. (This doesn't apply to those on official government business, like ambassadors or navy soldiers or whatnot)

[–] ashkenaziisraeli@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

How do you mean?

[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Explain to me what you think you, an individual, would do to "change society" in Israel?

[–] asdfasdfasdf@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Ultimately a society is composed of many individuals. We all play a small part in its change.

[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

would whatever you do as an individual have more of an effect than simply not paying Israeli taxes?

[–] asdfasdfasdf@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

In the grand scheme of things, not paying taxes is also a pretty miniscule thing. The US funding for Israel is pretty big though. If they needed more weapons that your tax dollars would have paid for, I'd guess the tax dollars you paid in the US would go to the same place. I guess the alternative is to live in not-US and not-Israel. But either way, I think the US would just fork up more money anyway.

But the main point I'm making is, bad people will find a way to do bad things. The best way to eliminate bad people is to change their minds.

[–] _______@poeng.link 3 points 3 months ago

I've quit jobs due to ethical disagreements, I'm sure I'd leave my home country if things got too bad. It wouldn't be the country i grew up in anyways.

You do you, people will both agree and disagree with you no matter what you chose.

[–] DarkGamer@kbin.social 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

That's entirely subjective and up to you, however, I feel like I should point out we're dealing with our own erosion of democracy issues in the United States as well.

[–] ashkenaziisraeli@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I assume Trump won't win again so its better here in the US than in Israel where the Israeli Trump keeps winning.

[–] athos77@kbin.social 4 points 3 months ago

It's possible Trump will win again. And even if he doesn't, he's not the only threat. There's so the emboldened MAGAts, a resurgent white nationalist / neo-Nazi / christofascist movement being weaponized, an unapologetically corrupt Supreme Court, a Republican party that's too scared of their own voters to do their job, a heavily militarized and intolerant police force, and plans to forcibly re-make the country with the next Republican president.

[–] ABCDE@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago (4 children)

It's very possible Trump will win again.

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[–] Melkath@kbin.social 3 points 3 months ago

It's your choice.

The whole "be the active person who stops the riches from ruining earth" trope is a lie.

The current US is just as bad as Israel if not worse.

All the losers who either flunked high school or flunked, but had daddy to pay their way have brought fascism back en masses.

If you have the luxury to move to Sweden, or the Bahammas, as far as I'm concerned, do it.

You'll be in a better place when Israel nukes Iran, WWIII pops off, and the US cripples the internet/critical infrastructure around the world.

[–] pineapplelover@lemm.ee 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

If you could make change, you could probably make change in other countries as well.

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[–] Gleddified@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Avoid Canada, or at least Toronto/Vancouver. Country is not in a great state atm.

[–] ashkenaziisraeli@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)
[–] chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

Mainly housing. A lot of western countries have housing issues but Canada is one of the worst. Extremely unaffordable here.

Is it important to you to live in a Jewish community? Where I live in Canada there aren’t very many Jews but I think there is a bigger community in Toronto. Nothing like you’d find in New York or Los Angeles though.

[–] ashkenaziisraeli@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

Oh I see. Yeah Ive heard Canada is horribly expensive.

[–] Gleddified@lemmy.ca 1 points 3 months ago

Mainly this, alongside a cost of living crisis not unique to Canada. Other concern is there is some animous towards immigrants as poor immigration policy is a part of why housing is where it is. Sadly, I'm not sure I'd feel welcome as an immigrant in Canada right now (perhaps more so for Indian/Pakistani immigrants, but still).

[–] Allero 1 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

You absolutely don't have to do that from the inside.

Great revolutionaries produced their brightest works while abroad, and they did change societies. You can always return to Israel later to try and change the game - or become a dissident living abroad, which is still valid. You'll still have influence over Israeli people if you want to.

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