this post was submitted on 04 Jun 2024
-24 points (21.4% liked)

Programming

17326 readers
185 users here now

Welcome to the main community in programming.dev! Feel free to post anything relating to programming here!

Cross posting is strongly encouraged in the instance. If you feel your post or another person's post makes sense in another community cross post into it.

Hope you enjoy the instance!

Rules

Rules

  • Follow the programming.dev instance rules
  • Keep content related to programming in some way
  • If you're posting long videos try to add in some form of tldr for those who don't want to watch videos

Wormhole

Follow the wormhole through a path of communities !webdev@programming.dev

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
snowe@programming.dev
Ategon@programming.dev
MaungaHikoi@lemmy.nz
-24
Mojo vs Julia (sh.itjust.works)
submitted 5 months ago by wargreymon@sh.itjust.works to c/programming@programming.dev
13 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

Discuss.

top 13 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] porgamrer@programming.dev 5 points 5 months ago

They are both doomed because neither is transformative enough to justify adoption. They are going to need to solve much harder problems to do that.

Take Rust as an example. It solved a problem that most people weren't even paying attention to, because the accepted wisdom said it was impossible.

[–] anzo@programming.dev 5 points 5 months ago (2 children)

First time I'm reading about Mojo. Seems like it's even more niche than Julia...

[–] porgamrer@programming.dev 3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Mojo's starting point is absurdly complex. Seems very obviously doomed to me.

Julia is a very clever design, but it still never felt that pleasant to use. I think it was held back by using llvm as a JIT, and by the single-minded focus on data science. Programming languages need to be more opportunistic than that to succeed, imo.

[–] balder1993@programming.dev 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Mojo is surfing on the AI hype, so only time will tell whether it lives to fulfill the expectation.

[–] FizzyOrange@programming.dev 3 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Haven't tried Mojo yet but I have tried Julia and it kinda sucked balls. Sorry Julia fans, but it did. My main complaints:

  • It's a research language like MATLAB, so the emphasis is on repl's, trying things out etc. But the compilation model is like C++. When you import a package it spends like 2 minutes compiling it. I think it's supposed to cache it but the second time it was still like 10 seconds for me just to import a package. I believe they've improved this since I used it but still, huge red flag.
  • 1-based indexing. Come on guys. Anyone using this is smart enough to learn 0-based indexing. It's like putting a steering wheel in a jet fighter because you worry about pilots getting confused by a joystick. Again, red flag.
  • The plotting libraries (a core feature for this sort of language) kind of sucks. In fairness nothing comes close to MATLAB on this front. I ended up paying for MATLAB because of that.

There's also this article which has more reasons.

I am leaving it a while longer before I try Mojo.

[–] wargreymon@sh.itjust.works -4 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Your arguments and article are interesting, but...

1-based indexing. Come on guys. Anyone using this is smart enough to learn 0-based indexing.

Julia is high-level language. 1 is the one thing, 0 is nothing.

steering wheel in a jet fighter

The steering wheel is 0-based indexing.

[–] Giooschi@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

High or low level doesn't matter. Mathematically it just makes more sense to use 0-based indexing https://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD08xx/EWD831.html

[–] wargreymon@sh.itjust.works -2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

I know what I am writing, 0 stands for nothing.

[–] cactusupyourbutt@lemmy.world 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

yes it means nothing. as in, you take the array, and move the reading position by nothing

[–] wargreymon@sh.itjust.works -2 points 5 months ago

You could phrase it like that for low-level lang, but it is so extra.....

More reason to like Julia

[–] Kissaki@programming.dev 1 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I know Julia. I used Julia. I moved away from Julia.

I'm on Nushell now for scripts, or C# for utils.

Mojo? Mojo games?

[–] wargreymon@sh.itjust.works -3 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Julia better bc parallel computing is easy to write in Julia, metaprogramming is also easy in Julia.