this post was submitted on 02 Aug 2024
6 points (100.0% liked)

Doctor Who

175 readers
1 users here now

A community for discussing all things Doctor Who.


Upcoming Episodes

Date Episode Title
05-31 1x05 "Dot and Bubble"
06-07 1x06 "Rogue"
06-14 1x07 "The Legend of Ruby Sunday"
06-21 1x08 "Empire of Death"
12-25 Special "Joy to the World"

Episode Discussion Archive


Doctor Who Wiki


Banner credit: Dusty Abell


founded 6 months ago
MODERATORS
 

LoglineWhen the Doctor and Ruby meet The Beatles, they discover that the all-powerful Maestro is changing history.


Written by: Russell T. Davies

Directed by: Ben Chessell

top 10 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] halm@leminal.space 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Revisiting the two episodes that launched season 1 with a same-day release, I feel like my estimation of them has flipped somewhat. Watching them back to back on the day, I was more partial to "Devil's chord" — now it seems like masterful performances covering up a whole lot of nothing.

Jinkx Monsoon carries the show with her delicious hamming, it takes power to overshadow Ncuti Gatwa as she does here. Everything else seems rudderless, though — like it's only there to tie Monsoon's scenes together: Timothy Drake, for all his presumed unwritten music, really meant nothing to the plot.

The Doctor showing Ruby the devastation of 2024 without music was an entirely hollow nod to "Pyramids of Mars". Basically just a band plagiarising its own greatest hits. Even the Beatles are underwhelming in this story, and not just due to the premise that Maestro is gobbling up music.

That core of the story, as depressing as it is rightfully presented, is completely let down by the climax that is apparently just about finding the right "anti-chord" to banish Maestro? And the woefully underdeveloped Lennon/McCartney just happens to wander through the halls of Abbey Road and hit the right note to fill the CGI power bar?

Okay, I guess. But then "music rushes back into the world" and as a result we get ... a cheesy, lightweight pop song, arguably worse than the Maestro-era Beatles classic "I've got a dog"? That's hardly a celebration of music, more like a wet handshake.

I'm all there for Maestro's vaudeville villainy, and the basic story setup! The execution was just so disjointed that it might have been an episode of "The Muppet Show" rather than a purposely written, 45 minute single story.

One scene that will stay with me, and I feel would have been a better climax, is the silent moment where the Doctor's sonic cancels out all sound. In an episode where all hinges on music and its absence, that leaves a far bigger impression than (Ugh!) "There's always a twist at the end".

If I were to grade this episode out of ten, I'd give it four points for the idea, five for casting Jinkx Monsoon, but deduct three for story execution and another three for that awful song routine. Trois points!

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

the climax that is apparently just about finding the right “anti-chord” to banish Maestro?

I think this is the most "magical" episode of the season by a large margin, and as much as this sort of resolution makes sense for that kind of story...you have to really nail the emotional truth of the story to make the anticlimax works. In that sense, I agree that this episode doesn't quite make it there.

And the woefully underdeveloped Lennon/McCartney just happens to wander through the halls of Abbey Road and hit the right note to fill the CGI power bar?

I actually kind of liked that moment, though it would have been nice for the Beatles to be more involved prior to that point.

the silent moment where the Doctor’s sonic cancels out all sound

Definitely the high point, dramatically speaking.

[–] halm@leminal.space 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

it would have been nice for the Beatles to be more involved prior to that point.

Yeah, the whole Beatles strand relies on the viewer's forehand knowledge of (and investment in) the band, particularly John and Paul. It's surely a British thing, but also a generational one that I think RTD may have misjudged. The Beatles were surely huge for his generation, but he's well out of the age segments the BBC or Disney want to attract.

To me, more than a decade younger than RTD, the Beatles were a part of pop culture growing up, but their music is sort of meh, especially this early mop top, boy band era. So somebody much younger watching now might need some kind of in-show engagement with them beyond "this is how sad they'd be without music"...

Come on, we'd all be. What makes these guys so special? Same as poor Timothy Drake, nothing evident in the episode.

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

their music is sort of meh

Careful...

[–] halm@leminal.space 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

🤷 As another time traveler said, "they do get better". I'm just personally more interested in music made in the 50+ years(!) since the Beatles disbanded. Different strokes.

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 3 points 3 months ago

No, it makes sense - a lot of what makes them so important is that they did a lot of things first, but they have been done since.

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I enjoy this one a lot more in retrospect - the first time around, I didn't really connect with it, but there's some real good stuff in this one.

A few weeks ago, I went back and watched "Pyramids of Mars", and discovered that the scene where the Doctor brings Ruby to the "present" to reveal it's been devastated closely mirrors the Doctor doing the same to Sarah Jane in that story, which is appropriate since "Pyramids of Mars" is the debut of Sutekh.

A Beatles story without the notoriously expensive Beatles music was a unique challenge. I will say that the actor playing John Lennon absolutely nailed Lennon's mannerisms, particularly when singing in the studio.


I've had a lot of fun with these retrospective discussions, but I think we've hit the point of diminishing returns, and going further back into the archives right now probably wouldn't generate a lot of interest. Maybe we can revisit the concept in the future.

[–] halm@leminal.space 4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

As one of the diminishing (yet remaining) returns, I'd be sad to see the retrospective discussions go. Like I've said here and in previous episode threads, I'm fascinated how my experiences change on repeat viewings.

As for the engagement, I don't see a lot of substantial Doctor Who discussion on Lemmy — neither here or in the other communities. I guess the fandom still holds on to Reddit and Twitter, and people here are more casual viewers?

I appreciate your work with this sub, and I hope gradually its user base will grow to a critical mass where it attracts at least the more savvy and/or savoury Whovians to the Fediverse 🙂

[–] ValueSubtracted@startrek.website 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

If we had even a couple more users as dedicated as you, I think we'd be in great shape!

I think Lemmy as a whole is in a place where comments are tough to attract if the topic isn't a meme or something that makes people angry - I think that should sort itself out over time, but there it is for now.

I would definitely like to revisit the retrospective stuff, though - either NuWho or Classic Who (much of which I haven't seen). If a good excuse comes up to try again, I'll definitely do it.

[–] halm@leminal.space 3 points 3 months ago

Lemmy is, for better or worse, the privacy- and open web-oriented users who got TFO Reddit when the moderation went to hell. I guess it's telling (and to some degree positive) that most of the Who-communities have continued over there without much of a hiccup. I say "positive" because, IMO, often the debate in those communities gets ... weird. Like, parasocial, in-group weird.

What I've liked and still browse on r/gallifrey is exactly their recurring posts, sort of like these retrospects. Even if there are no news or current discussions in the fandom, you have something to return for every week. And I'd think it's a low-commitment schedule?

If we had even a couple more users as dedicated as you, I think we’d be in great shape!

You know, let's leave that here as a challenge to others for more engagement!