this post was submitted on 04 Oct 2024
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Does anyone here have practical advice or experience with prosthetics or exoskeletons? (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 month ago by j4k3@lemmy.world to c/asklemmy@lemmy.ml
10 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

I've been mulling over ways I might try to model and shape something to help with my chronic thoracic issues. It's been over 10 years and I've not been able to get effective help. I don't want to talk about that mess and the truly massive scope of what I've done and been through.

I'm not in super lean shape, but I'm not obese by any measure. I'm thinking about trying different ways to stiffen the area around rib 5-6. I'm mostly concerned with how to conform to the shape, skin, muscle, and fat as comfortably as possible while applying pressure. I just don't have a well grounded idea for a starting point.

The best I have felt in the last ten years was after I fell and fractured rib 5 and/or 6 at the beginning of May in 2020. I know it was a fracture from the ~3 weeks of feeling needles when I breathed in, like with prior rib fractures. With Covid at the time, there was no chance I was going for a rib xray just to tell me what I already knew. There is nothing to be done for a rib anyways. The swelling from that injury relieved all of the pain I experience in my back. It was the best two weeks I've had. I even had 4 epidural injections before. That was an almost equivalent level of relief, but it lasted less than 3 days.

If I can recreate a similar pressure as from that break, it is a long shot, but it might make me functional. My physicality is quite limited, but I have lots of fabrication and CAD skills. I think I'm in a place where I want to try and make a solution. Major spending is a no go, but I may try modeling a 3d print first as it is the least labor intensive. Otherwise, I might try leather, or worst case I'll use a clay mold and fiberglass or carbon fiber composite to create a form. Advice, experience, approachable reading materials, or examples of what others have created are welcome and what I'm asking for.

I struggle to stay positive and motivated in this kind of project. I have little interest in medical or anatomy, and really struggle with large unknown projects like this, especially anything that could create hope and large disappointments from inevitable iterative failures. I am both extremely close to being healthy and functional, but it is absolutely empirically out of reach even if it is close enough to touch.

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[โ€“] tiefling@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 points 1 month ago

Get a corset, they take the weight from your upper chest and put it on your hips

[โ€“] half_built_pyramids@lemmy.world 11 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Do you have access to a printer that's big enough for a torso? That already feels like a huge expense to me.

You mentioned leather and that seems like the easiest to manufacture and adjust.

I did a quick search and this came up, super affordable and probably something you could mod and build off of easily

https://www.amazon.com/IFKODEI-Trainer-Corsets-Shapewear-Slimming/dp/B09HCGN3N8

[โ€“] j4k3@lemmy.world 5 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Thanks for the reference. I have a bit of experience with print and design. I can make almost anything modular, and have mastered FreeCAD.

My biggest concern is anchoring and shaping effectively, along with long term effects of smaller pressure points. Making something that can handle sitting standing and lying seems a likely issue as well. I want to replicate the pressure from a break specifically. Pressure from rare stomach issues is miserable for me to an excruciating level. Something about it places the wrong kind of pressure on my back issues. That is why I haven't done a corset. I need something like a pressure only on the left side of my sternum on just two ribs. Basically, ribs 5 and 6 are the bottom of what you feel in the front bottom of your chest at the base of the sternum. Intuitively, I need pressure from the front under my nipple area that pushes these ribs into the spine with little impact anywhere else.

[โ€“] Tippon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I need something like a pressure only on the left side of my sternum on just two ribs.

Could you fold over some gauze and bandage it in place as a temporary fix? The bandage could be wrapped around your body to spread the pressure on the opposite side.

It wouldn't be a permanent fix, but could help you to fine tune where you need the pressure without having to design anything, and would hopefully provide some relief while you work on something better.

[โ€“] j4k3@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I actually tried that a few weeks ago with some tight wrapped bandages. I couldn't keep it in place. My skin is too loose and fatty just under my breast and it leads to the bandage rolling down. I thought about getting something different to try and wrap it but wrapping didn't feel quite right with pressure in circular compression. My waist is still a good bit smaller so it is about like wrapping the outside of an awkward funnel.

It is such an unusual issue. I mean picture how breaking a rib up around you nipple can make your posture feel better, but it is not just posture. Like, normally people can have back pain but they can still minimally function. If I push too long and too hard I fail entirely to the point I am on the ground and unable to do anything.

I even thought about just the upper part of a corset, but then it probably wouldn't stay in place unless maybe some suspenders or something. The thing is, my posture is what is holding me back the most, but I have major damage all the way up my neck. I can only barely turn my head to the left and can't see over my shoulder at all on that side, it just grinds, locks up, and often causes injury if I try.

The only thing I really got out of physical therapy was a deep tissue massage of a dude using his elbow to articulate each individual vertebrae one at a time. It used to wear him out because he had to push so hard. I learned to do the same thing using a tennis ball, baseball, and the knob end of a baseball bat. I lay on the floor and place all of my weight on the ball/knob while rolling it to achieve the same pressure and articulation. If you can imagine picking up you hips with a hard object like a baseball and trying to put some force into it, you have the kind of pressure it takes to impact where I really hurt. I'm going to need nearly if not equivalent pressures in a small area to really make a difference.

I also need to maintain the rest of my skeletal movement. I may spend 90% of my day in bed, but even when I sleep, I can't stay in one position for more than just a few minutes. I flop around like a fish constantly. If I don't, things get bad fast. One of my lowest lows was from attempting to address my chronic lack of sleep with prescription drugs. It is a tricky problem. Likely one without a solution, but that scares me less than it used to. It is one of my last strings of hope for a bootstrap fix , but I'm quickly approaching a now or never timeline with a bleak future otherwise.

[โ€“] ouRKaoS 2 points 1 month ago

Small tip: try a lacrosse ball for rolling around on. That's what I use for pains in my lower back/hips and shoulders, and sometimes it's more effective to lean against a wall that to get all the way on the floor.

I've described fixing my back pain to people as needing to take my spine out, crack it like a whip, and then put it back. Sounds like you have a similar issue with needing that individual articulation.

[โ€“] half_built_pyramids@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago

Take the corset concept and sew on a strap diagonal from the bad nipple over the opposing shoulder?

[โ€“] Today@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago

Maybe thermoplast if you want some rigidity. Look up old fashioned tlso or a benik vest knockoff that you can snug up.

[โ€“] Grimy@lemmy.world 7 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I'm guessing 3d printing would be the way to go since you can prototype quickly. You can eventually make it out of other materials with molds and cnc machines. Fusion 360 is free if you get the hobby version, it's my personal go to option but there is tinkercad and a few others as well.

[โ€“] southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Well, the problem is that the kind of brace you'd want has to be shaped by hand right now.

3d printing will likely get there eventually, but turning out a chest/back brace that's not only effective but wearable is as much an art as anything else.

I'm not sure where someone without training would get started. Orthotists and prosthetists are specialists; orthotics is a master's program, and that's the kind of endeavor your desired brace is.

It's doable for sure; though whether it's practical to recreate the decades of research and experimentation that led to where orthotics is today is a different issue.

Iirc, you'd start with thermoplastics, I can't recall the ones that are used. But they're shaped by mold, taken from the patient directly, then adjusted during fittings so that there's no/less issues with long term use. And you can't just skip the kind of shaping needed. Afaik, nobody is printing orthotics yet. Casts, yes, though that's fairly new; but those are short term use, so don't require the same kind of fitting.

I've seen, and been present during fittings for, braces for scoliosis, which is going to be similar to the kind of orthotic you'd need.

If you decide to go the home brew route, you'd want to start with a plaster cast of your torso. Best way to go, so you can have a solid form to shape whatever material you go with.

TPU was a common material back when I was still a caregiver, though that has been over a decade ago now, so it may have been supplanted by other thermoplastics.

Carbon fiber was starting to be used back then, but it tends to be too rigid for applications like a torso piece. Maybe with enough foam in between you and the rigid parts, but at that point, why not just go with something less expensive, and more flexible? Iirc, CF was being used for things like leg and ankle orthotics where they'd be bearing weight and need the extra rigidity.

I know that there was CAD based modelling and fast prototyping being done for orthotics, but it was mainly useful in prosthetics, where they could make reproducible units that would then be customized.

Tbh, I would try finding an orthotist irl to meet with and brainstorm. Even if they can't/won't help you make your own gear, they'll likely still warn you off of really bad ideas.

That's at least in part because you say you have little interest in medical or anatomical study, and that's what you need if you want your end device to do the job you want. You just can't fine tune a torso brace without understanding the musculoskeletal system in that area, and what you'll need to avoid doing.

Like, the curvature of the spine. It may seem like you could just mold your body and make the brace conform to that. But, if the goal is to give support to part of your body, the brace has to apply pressure to your body applying it at the wrong place, or in the wrong way could make things worse. So if you don't have the time/interest/willingness to gain the level of understanding of anatomy to achieve that, you'll be better off consulting with someone that already has that knowledge. It's kinda like self surgery, there's only so much you can do blind without causing problems worse than what you're trying to fix.