this post was submitted on 28 Oct 2024

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Guaranteed Crypto Loss. (www.citizen.org)

submitted 2 weeks ago by Dot@feddit.org to c/technology@lemmy.world

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[–] Churbleyimyam@lemm.ee 45 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Bitcoin is NOT based on thin air.

It's based on wasting loads of electricity.

[–] Naich@lemmings.world 10 points 2 weeks ago

Basically a massive sunk-cost-fallacy bubble.

[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 weeks ago

And what about proof-of-stake?

[+] shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip -26 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

How do you figure? A completely digital irreversible payment system is worth a lot in today's day and age? Also, I just read an article that was talking about a small town near the Arctic Circle that was heating their city hall building and the stuff with mining instead of oil boilers. Plus, it could replace the global banking system with all of its buildings and employees shuttling back and forth to work, etc. And it's also less energy intensive than heavy industrial processes that use high temperature heat, such as glass making. Also, it allows for new electricity sites to be made over capacity in order to grow with a local area and still have a buyer willing to take as much electricity as possible until it's needed by somebody else. And then they can just easily shut off temporarily.

Overall, mining is probably more of a net positive than a net negative.

[–] pandapoo@sh.itjust.works 19 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

This has to be a joke right? Satire?

I mean, it's one thing to be a long on Bitcoin, or even just see it's value as a niche commodity.

But suggesting Bitcoin mining is an energy efficient way to heat buildings, is capable of replacing global finance, or that it creates more tangible benefits than artisanal glass blowers...?

You know what I can do with a artisanal piece of glass? Hold it, use it, own it.

You know what I can do with Bitcoin? Speculate that if I hold on to it long enough, I can convert it to actual currency that can actually be used as a currency.

Unlike BTC, which is just a speculative commodity, with no tangible assets to provide an actual floor.

The floor on crypto is zero. If I buy a bunch of gold right now, even if the price crashes, I still have a bunch of gold.

[–] shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip -5 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I think that's what you're missing. Crypto is a currency. It is meant to be used in transactions for buying a car or buying a house or buying groceries or buying a pet or buying a computer. It is a currency and is used as such. To be fair, Bitcoin has failed as a currency because it's traceable, which is bad for a currency, and it can't do enough transactions per second without extremely high fees. And those two things together have caused it to fail as a currency. Monero, on the other hand, does work as a currency, because it's not traceable. So no, not satire at all.

[–] pandapoo@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Yes, Monero fills a niche, and it's the closest crypto asset to resemble a currency.

However, your previous post talked about replacing finance with Bitcoin. Even if we pretend you were talking about Monero, that just means you have a one world currency, and no one at the helm who can guide monetary policy for any one country.

You shouldn't need a degree in finance or economics to understand how disastrous that would be, especially for smaller and poorer countries.

So, Bitcoin and the rest of crypto are all commodities, not currencies. They are commodities with a high environmental cost, and a floor of zero because they have no tangible assets to speak of.

Monero can fill a niche, and I'm actually happy about that because I like Monero and the principles behind the project. Unless of course you believe that includes delusions of grandeur and replacing all world currency and financial systems, with the magic of the "just the right crypto".

[–] shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

With Monero as a currency, governments will not exist because they will not be able to enforce taxation and nobody will accept their fiat money as valuable.

[–] pandapoo@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

lol

[–] shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 weeks ago

Thats my hopes anyway. Humans have allowed the existance of tyrants for far to long

[–] powerofm@lemmy.ca 15 points 2 weeks ago

Careful with all that copium you're huffing

[–] db2@lemmy.world 28 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Bitcoin, a cryptocurrency, is “based on thin air.” It is a “scam.” It can facilitate unlawful behavior, including drug trade and other illegal activity.”

The US dollar can be described exactly the same way and has a richer history of it.

[–] 0x0@programming.dev 7 points 2 weeks ago

The US dollar can be described exactly the same way and has a richer history of it.

Especially since August 15th '71.

[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Misleading headline. This is actually about trump's shitcoins. Ofc they're a scam.

(It looks like the article is gone now?)

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works -2 points 2 weeks ago

The Trump token

This is 100% BS, don't buy that crap. If you want cryptocurrency, buy one of the established coins, like BTC, XMR, or ETH.

Bitcoin, a cryptocurrency, is “based on thin air.” It is a “scam.” It can facilitate unlawful behavior, including drug trade and other illegal activity.” These are Public Citizen positions. But they are also direct comments from then President Donald J. Trump.

I don't see how one relates to the two. In both cases and as stated by others here, those statements also apply to the US Dollar, which is one of the most respected and certainly one of the most used currencies in the world. BTC itself is not great for illegal activity because every transaction is traceable, so you're better off using the Lightning network or a privacy coin (e.g. XMR) to approximate the privacy features that the USD provides. But even then, if you lose your device, law enforcement could figure out all of your transactions, whereas cash transactions are completely untraceable.

This article just looks like a dig at Trump, and cryptocurrencies got caught in the crossfire. I'm 100% on board with calling the Trump token a scam because the intent there is really clear: to raise funding for Trump. There's no expectation that this coin will meaningfully exist in 5 years, and probably not even 1.

So call a spade a spade, Trump's cryptocurrency is a scam. But that doesn't mean all cryptocurrencies are scams, it just means you need to make sure you trust those in control of the currency before using it. That's true for national currencies, and I wouldn't recommend buying Venezuelan Bolivares because the government backing it isn't trustworthy.

[+] shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip -12 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

I have much more faith in Monero than I have in the US dollar. If you were to offer me dollars or Monero, I would take the Monero every day without questions. This article says that Bitcoin is based on thin air, and as the other commenter pointed out, this is exactly what all fiat currency is based on. In fact, at least with Bitcoin and other good cryptocurrencies, you know how much supply exists and what supply will exist in the future, where with any fiat currency that is determined minute by minute by guys in suits that have nothing to do with the ordinary citizen.

Edit: Also, everybody with half a brain knows that Bitcoin is not to be used for criminal activities because it's completely traceable.

[–] chunkystyles@sopuli.xyz 2 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Uhuh...would you take Monero if it could never be exchanged for dollars?

[–] Anivia@feddit.org 1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I would. I have never used dollars in my entire life to purchase goods. But I have done so with Monero frequently

[–] chunkystyles@sopuli.xyz 1 points 2 weeks ago

Either you're lying, or you're being pedantic. I mean fiat currency in general.

[–] shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip 0 points 2 weeks ago

Actually, yes i would. I dont want dollars and only keep enough around to have liquidity. (About 10% of my net worth).

[+] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works -8 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Eh, if you use the Lightning network, Bitcoin is quite private, provided you don't close the channels you use.

That said, I agree that Monero is a lot more reasonable than Bitcoin for actual transactions. I don't see a point in holding Bitcoin, Monero is much better suited to making everyday purchases because transaction costs are low and privacy features are solid. Yeah, it can be used for crime, but so can cash, so I don't think that has any bearing on whether a currency has value.

[–] shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Two big issues with lightning network are that channels appear to get force closed for no apparent reason and most lightning wallets are custodial lightning and so you don't actually have control over your money and doing it in a self sovereign way is quite difficult for the vast majority of people

[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works -4 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Right, but it can be used privately, which is my point.

But yeah, I think Monero is the better option for the reasons you mentioned, as well as the development focus being on private transactions, whereas Lightning is about fast, cheap transactions. So Monero is absolutely my preference for purchase transactions.

[–] shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 weeks ago

Monero is also just quite a bit easier since it is on layer one where lightning is a layer two solution and introduces more complexity.