this post was submitted on 24 Jan 2025

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Actually Infuriating

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Why does EU let Microsoft break Linux on dual-booting computers? Why let home robots sabotage enemy products in people's homes? (lemmy.world)

submitted 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) by Tehdastehdas@lemmy.world to c/actually_infuriating@lemmy.world

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Every time Windows updates itself, my Linux disappears. Actually, it's just hidden, only the boot menu was overwritten. You need a computer maintenance technician to make a new boot menu. I use a USB stick with a live Linux with automatic boot repair tools.

Recently, Windows has become resistant to Boot Repair Disk. Now I have to open computer firmware by tapping "Esc" right after power-up, then select "Boot options", then "Linux".

EU must ban all US-made smart products for its own safety. All closed-source software and electronics that can be used for strategic manipulation and sabotage -- Google, Apple, Amazon, all of it.

We have functional, clunky open-source software that could easily be fitted for any purpose with the money we waste propping up foreign monopolies sabotaging us. Europe has taken a huge risk. I suspect bribery.

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[–] Internetexplorer@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

This is anti competitive behaviour. It's kind of criminal

[–] _cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 day ago (2 children)

The fix for this is pretty simple. Uninstall Windows and never look back. I haven't used any Microsoft products in years now.

[–] olafurp@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

Worked for me

[–] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 day ago

Removing windows, like putting on an ad blocker, is just basic security at this point.

[–] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I got do pissed one day that I figured out a good work around. Get a second drive just big enough for Linux and a third just big enough for windows. Then just remove windows and Linux from your big "must be safe" drive. Now install Linux on your Linux drive and Windows on your windows drive. Next, go to Fstab on Linux and Mount your big drive as either home for all users or a single user's home. Similarly go to Windows and mount the Linux home drive. You'll probably need to install drivers to even see the thing. I don't mix my Linux home. Instead I have a small drive for windows to fuck up shit into (which is what it does). Finally use the Linux bootloader and tell Windows to stay in its fucking place or shut the fuck up. It works.

[–] ChapulinColorado@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

As sad as that sounds in terms of maintenance and work for the average person,it checks out.

As someone that learned this the hard way in the 2000s with no other family computer backup, with some technical skills, this is a small slip up from Microsoft.

Instead of installing Linux in my computer and maintaining some un-maintainable windows copy on my dads computer, I’ll just install Linux mint or similar on his computer and tell him to click the big Firefox icon on the desktop as usual.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

I have my pc with linux only. Works like a charm.

Then I have my winbox for stuff that doesn't run on linux.

I won't mix those two together ever.

[–] ober9000@lemmy.world 13 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I mean Microsofts programming is also just shit. I remember installing Windows 7 back then. The computer had an SSD and a HDD in it with old files. I later removed the HDD and it wouldn't boot. Because even though I installed Windows on the SSD, it put the bootloader onto the HDD.

[–] hark@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

I had the exact same thing happen to me and it pissed me off so much.

[–] kadup@lemmy.world 11 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Windows still does that to this day. For some random reason, it will often create the EFI boot partition in a different drive than the one you're installing Windows to.

[–] Ashelyn@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 2 days ago

Yeah... It's typically best to only connect the drive you want the OS on, then add the other(s) post install

[–] vala@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago

This meme got me. Really do be that way.

[–] secretlyaddictedtolinux@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago

They are doing everyone a favor. Why woukd you want that shit on your computer at all?

Or if you simply must use Windows, why not use KVM?

This seems like Windows developers doing everyone a solid: "You sure you want this shit to have root access over everyrhing?" they are asking.

[–] merthyr1831@lemmy.ml 83 points 3 days ago (11 children)

FWIW dual booting from the same physical drive is never a good idea in my experience. Even Linux-Linux dual booting is just asking for problems when one of them updates the grub configs and messes it up for the other.

Save yourself some sanity and move your Windows install to a new drive.

[–] NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I tried to do a dual boot from 2 hard drives (windows main), had to restore the Linux side early on, using its built in restore tool, and the computer would not boot after beyond a black screen without pulling the battery for the BIOS off the motherboard. No boot menus or firmware or bios menus were accessible until I did that.

That's the worst oh shit did I fully break my computer moment ever.

[–] biokernel@discuss.tchncs.de 15 points 3 days ago

and when one drive fails you can boot from the other drive and repair your system

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[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 15 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I'm surprised that Windows overrides the UEFI partition at every boot. They should not be allowed to do this.

But also, i'm kinda surprised that Windows allows the wubi.exe Ubuntu installer to write to the UEFI boot menu.

I agree that better regulations need to be put in place. I too suspect bribery. How else would you explain that we're getting surveillance package instead of this?

[–] CubitOom@infosec.pub 35 points 3 days ago (4 children)

Safest thing to do is run windows only in a VM or container with Linux as the host OS and pass the hardware required in. Windows actually runs better this way and can't mess with your Linux install.

[–] xyz1195@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

"That's not how anything works" meme material right here.

How can literally anything run better on a vm compared to physical?

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[–] Khanzarate@lemmy.world 10 points 3 days ago (5 children)

How does it run better?

I've avoided it specifically for performance reasons, this is new to me, for one program that WINE doesn't like.

[–] marcos@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago

Linux manages disk access way better than Windows.

But anything that depends on CPU, memory, or IO lattency will get slower.

[–] CubitOom@infosec.pub 9 points 3 days ago (2 children)

I've not actually benchmarked it. Although others have and I couldn't really tell you why but windows spends a lot less time and resources trying to manage itself when it's in a VM or container. It's just much snapier and even when passing in a GPU to play games it preforms well.

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

None of this has ever been my experience

[–] S_H_K@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

AFAIK Virtualization is very Dependant on hardware. Some processors are not optimized for virtualization at all so even if you have great video cards or anything the virtualization could still run like shit for you and run seamlessly for someone with less specs. Don't ask me which ones are good I learnt this the hard way while trying to use a celeron to run a VM.

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Well, to some degree I'm sure you're right. But the thing is, I've used VMs off and on for at least 15 years on AMD, Intel, and ARM cpus. My universal experience has been that software running within those VMs, even on an incredibly fast host machine, runs so slow it's painful. I have mostly used VirtualBox which I know a lot of people hate but it's been the only one I have found that usually "just works". So I dunno. If you have a better suggestion for a VM host that runs fast on linux (x86) I'd love to hear it because I'm currently trying to permanently ditch windows and VMs could be a part of that because I do want access to Photoshop and a few other Adobe apps. But thusfar when I've tried that, the slowness has been unbearable.

[–] S_H_K@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

I ran a virtualbox vm too but for installing an old game I want to scavenge the resources from. It went so slow that I ended installing atlas on another laptop just to have have it done "this day". So I don't have many suggestions sorry XD. I ditched the photoshop too for gimp so there is barely a "turning back". Most of the games that I wan to play seems to work in linux anyway.

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago

Oh ok. I thought you were saying you had better performance on windows on VMs so I was just wondering if I had missed that due to the host software or something

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[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago

what is windows?

[–] Lazycog@sopuli.xyz 22 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (5 children)

I agree with your post but I must ask - is that King Charles taking the ~~wheel~~ UEFI Boot partition?

Thanks for the confirmations. It indeed seems to be King Charles taking the UEFI Boot Partition. ~~Microsoft~~ Monarchy at it again taking what belongs to the people.

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[–] endeavor@sopuli.xyz 11 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Win11 bricked my linux install usb. Microsoft also colluded with intel to make intel cpus appear to perform better by sandbagging AMD cpus.

Bill Gates may be a nice guy but his company has become trash.

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 12 points 2 days ago

Bill Gates may have become a nice guy but his company is trash.

Better, no?

[–] heavydust@sh.itjust.works 11 points 2 days ago (2 children)

has become trash

It was always trash and always fucked with Linux and other OS. The only solution is no Windows.

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Sad thing is, the NT kernel itself is POSIX and compatible and all. But the UI on top doesn't support half of it.

Edit: it was POSIX and OS/2 compatibel, then they removed it.

[–] renzev@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago

The funny thing is, as far as I can tell, the only reason why NT has a posix subsystem is to comply with some weird government regulation.

From Wikipedia:

The NT POSIX subsystem was included with the first versions of Windows NT because of 1980s US federal government requirements listed in Federal Information Processing Standard (FIPS) 151-2. Briefly, these documents required that certain types of government purchases be POSIX-compliant, so that if Windows NT had not included this subsystem, computing systems based on it would not have been eligible for some government contracts.

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[–] MushroomsEverywhere@lemmy.world 4 points 2 days ago

I'm just gonna put this here for no reason. https://youtu.be/lFS9DFXtj1M

[–] ThePantser@lemmy.world 14 points 3 days ago (1 children)

EU must ban all US-made smart products for its own safety. All closed-source software and electronics that can be used for strategic manipulation and sabotage -- Google, Apple, Amazon, all of it.

Well this solves your first issue, Microsoft is US based. So just uninstall windows.

[–] dust_accelerator@discuss.tchncs.de 15 points 3 days ago

"Computers are like air conditioning.

They become useless when you open windows"

some Finnish dude

[–] RedstoneValley@sh.itjust.works 10 points 3 days ago (6 children)

I use a Dualboot with Windows 10 (there are unfortunately some very few games I couldn't get to run with Linux, otherwise I had removed Windows a long time ago) but I never ran into this problem. Someone here wrote about efimgr, could be that I installed that by accident and this helps. I just followed some random tutorial back then.

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[–] yessikg@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Windows 11 gets worse with every update, might start running it in a VM

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[–] redxef@feddit.org 12 points 3 days ago (1 children)

efibootmgr is your friend. Boot into linux and use it to set the boot records as you want, in the order that you want them.

Also, I have heard from a bunch of people, that this can be mitigated by having separate EFI partitions for Linux and Windows. That means one EFI partition per physical drive. You can go as far as having the EFI partition on different media than the Linux install.

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