this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2023
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Lemmy.World Announcements

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Lemmy World outages (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by lwadmin@lemmy.world to c/lemmyworld@lemmy.world
 

Hello there!

It has been a while since our last update, but it's about time to address the elephant in the room: downtimes. Lemmy.World has been having multiple downtimes a day for quite a while now. And we want to take the time to address some of the concerns and misconceptions that have been spread in chatrooms, memes and various comments in Lemmy communities.

So let's go over some of these misconceptions together.

"Lemmy.World is too big and that is bad for the fediverse".

While one thing is true, we are the biggest Lemmy instance, we are far from the biggest in the Fediverse. If you want actual numbers you can have a look here: https://fedidb.org/network

The entire Lemmy fediverse is still in its infancy and even though we don't like to compare ourselves to Reddit it gives you something comparable. The entire amount of Lemmy users on all instances combined is currently 444,876 which is still nothing compared to a medium sized subreddit. There are some points that can be made that it is better to spread the load of users and communities across other instances, but let us make it clear that this is not a technical problem.

And even in a decentralised system, there will always be bigger and smaller blocks within; such would be the nature of any platform looking to be shaped by its members. 

"Lemmy.World should close down registrations"

Lemmy.World is being linked in a number of Reddit subreddits and in Lemmy apps. Imagine if new users land here and they have no way to sign up. We have to assume that most new users have no information on how the Fediverse works and making them read a full page of what's what would scare a lot of those people off. They probably wouldn't even take the time to read why registrations would be closed, move on and not join the Fediverse at all. What we want to do, however, is inform the users before they sign up, without closing registrations. The option is already built into Lemmy but only available on Lemmy.ml - so a ticket was created with the development team to make these available to other instance Admins. Here is the post on Lemmy Github.

Which brings us to the third point:

"Lemmy.World can not handle the load, that's why the server is down all the time"

This is simply not true. There are no financial issues to upgrade the hardware, should that be required; but that is not the solution to this problem.

The problem is that for a couple of hours every day we are under a DDOS attack. It's a never-ending game of whack-a-mole where we close one attack vector and they'll start using another one. Without going too much into detail and expose too much, there are some very 'expensive' sql queries in Lemmy - actions or features that take up seconds instead of milliseconds to execute. And by by executing them by the thousand a minute you can overload the database server.

So who is attacking us? One thing that is clear is that those responsible of these attacks know the ins and outs of Lemmy. They know which database requests are the most taxing and they are always quick to find another as soon as we close one off. That's one of the only things we know for sure about our attackers. Being the biggest instance and having defederated with a couple of instances has made us a target.  

"Why do they need another sysop who works for free"

Everyone involved with LW works as a volunteer. The money that is donated goes to operational costs only - so hardware and infrastructure. And while we understand that working as a volunteer is not for everyone, nobody is forcing anyone to do anything. As a volunteer you decide how much of your free time you are willing to spend on this project, a service that is also being provided for free.

We will leave this thread pinned locally for a while and we will try to reply to genuine questions or concerns as soon as we can.

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[–] fkn@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Question, can we configure the nginx to return cached responses for all non-logged in queries for predetermined periods of time? (1min for example?)

[–] BedSharkPal@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yeah some sort of rate limiting and caching seems like the first line of defense here. I'm sure they are aware of that though.

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[–] hamid@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Sounds like you are the victims of a hackathon more so than a single person upset about drama. defcon is tomorrow, maybe some group/feds/soon-to-be-fed will have a demonstration and talks about ActivityPub

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[–] AlmightySnoo@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (8 children)

People should stick with the instance otherwise you're just encouraging those tankies and nazis to use DDOS attacks again to bring down instances that defederate with them, don't let them know that they're successful. This opportunistic concern trolling around lemmy.world's downtime needs to stop. As the admins said, sooner or later "small" instances would have 100k users and would start having these issues all at once if it weren't for lemmy.world experiencing them first hand. Some DB optimizations were pushed to Lemmy thanks to lemmy.world.

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[–] Piers@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The conversation gets a bit scrambled/broken up by disruptive/toxic people but this is a comment chain on lemmy.ml two weeks ago about SQL issues and challenges in getting the Lemmy Dev team to address them that might be worth reading:

https://lemmy.ml/comment/2100093

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[–] Lugh@futurology.today 12 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I wonder what motivated any DOS attacks.

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[–] AhimsaBjorn@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago

For my part, I wish to offer a sincere thanks to the Lemmy.world admins for their efforts up to now and as they continue to deal with the targeted DDOS attacks. You are Lemmy heroes who are helping to create this promising future. Sometimes it's a fight against those who are struggling with their internal daemons and taking it out on others. Bright days are ahead for the Fediverse. Keep marching forward!

[–] DelvianSeek@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

Once again, thank you for the transparency and for keeping us (the users) informed, as well as for all the work you do to keep lemmy.world going.

[–] nix@merv.news 11 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I think it would be good to not close registration and if once a month or something there could be a post by admins about migrating to smaller instances (this is made easy with the LASIM tool) so new users can easily sign up with no hurdle but we also prevent too much centralization.

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[–] bluestribute@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The fun thing about the Fediverse is that when this goes down the other instances stay up, so whoever is doing the attacks isn't really doing much except promoting people to create accounts on multiple instances. Which makes the numbers look really big.

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[–] zikk_transport2@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Would it be possible to ratelimit connections/requests? Some sort of AI-based blocking? What are current technologies to battle such DDOS attacks?

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