this post was submitted on 28 Nov 2023
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These countries tried everything from cash to patriotic calls to duty to reverse drastically declining birth rates. It didn’t work.

If history is any guide, none of this will work: No matter what governments do to convince them to procreate, people around the world are having fewer and fewer kids.

In the US, the birth rate has been falling since the Great Recession, dropping almost 23 percent between 2007 and 2022. Today, the average American woman has about 1.6 children, down from three in 1950, and significantly below the “replacement rate” of 2.1 children needed to sustain a stable population. In Italy, 12 people now die for every seven babies born. In South Korea, the birth rate is down to 0.81 children per woman. In China, after decades of a strictly enforced one-child policy, the population is shrinking for the first time since the 1960s. In Taiwan, the birth rate stands at 0.87.

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[–] AquaTofana@lemmy.world 28 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (13 children)

I've been terrified of pregnancy my entire life and I'm a selfish adult who wants to do what I want.

So yes, nothing the governments do can ever make me want to have kids.

Not even you, Greg Abbott, you dickhole pathetic excuse for a "person". I fucking hate you!

Edit: One of my sentences was exceptionally dark.

[–] whatwhatwutyut@midwest.social 20 points 11 months ago

I don't think it's selfish to not want kids. With how fucked the world is, maybe we should be thinking about if it's instead selfish to have kids.

I determined from about age 12 that I didn't want kids. 10 years later and I still don't want them, so I removed the possibility of accidentally having them. The government can't make me have kids - seeing as I yeeted my uterus.

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[–] Jarix@lemmy.world 28 points 11 months ago

You absolutely can pay people to do just about anything including having kids.

Give me a credit card that can pay ALL of my bills and i will both adopt a kid and find someone who wants to have one.

The problem is kids are a huge burden when you can barely afford to live your own life let alone provide and be responsible for another human being

Pay people to retire early and you will see a huge boom in population

[–] Mango@lemmy.world 27 points 11 months ago

Giving birth to someone is the worst thing you can do to them. I'm not taking money for that.

[–] merc@sh.itjust.works 27 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Authorities have hosted several singles mixers in an effort to get young people to pair up.

And who wouldn't want to go to a singles mixer hosted by "the authorities". Sounds fun.

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[–] foggy@lemmy.world 27 points 11 months ago

I would honestly need twice my salary and a free home to consider it with my girlfriend.

Not even on the table.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 26 points 11 months ago (16 children)

Less people means less waste and less fossil fuel consumption. This is not a bad thing.

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[–] Zozano@aussie.zone 26 points 11 months ago (6 children)

Terry Gou, a candidate in next year’s Taiwanese presidential election, has even proposed giving people a free pet if they have a child.

Okay, so your solution for people who don't want children is to give them "children lite"?

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[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 25 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

reducing work hours in japan lead to a spike in pregnancies. If you want to raise birth rates a 4day work week should be at the top of the list.

[–] stolid_agnostic@lemmy.ml 22 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Two things:

  1. Life sucks for a lot of people. Younger Gen X, Millenials, Gen Z all have had really hard times. Why would someone want to make their life harder?

  2. The "declining" birth rates are actually returning to pre-Baby Boom levels. This is a fully natural thing.

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[–] Smoogs@lemmy.world 22 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (10 children)

Well the earth is overpopulated, sounds like the human species as a whole is a lot smarter than politicians and anti social capitalists looking for $$ to numnum

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[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 21 points 11 months ago

Mandate a 32 hour, 4 day work week? That's one more day per week to think about makin babies?

[–] randombullet@feddit.de 21 points 11 months ago (4 children)

I have a stable job and a good chunk of savings and I still feel wholly inadequate of raising a child. I know some of it is just me being selfish

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[–] ExLisper@linux.community 21 points 11 months ago (6 children)

The real reason why people don't have kids is because they suck. Kids are stupid and annoying. More and more people are waking up to this fact and starting to resist the social pressure."I can actually live my life instead of dedicating all my time and resources to something I don't even need? I'll have two of that please!"

If government wants kids let them raise the kids. Pay women to give birth and then put the kid in public system. Problem solved.

[–] Femcowboy@lemm.ee 23 points 11 months ago (7 children)

I mean, kids only really suck in a world where both parents have to work 40+ hours a week. You really don't have to dedicate all your time to them, but in a world with less and less community to help raise them and more and more work to grind your energy down, you have to dedicate far too much of your limited free time to them. I would love to be able to raise a kid or two myself. I loved working with kids. We should not be throwing them into some nebulous "public system."

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[–] reverendsteveii@lemm.ee 19 points 11 months ago

How much cash? Is it drastically less than the increase in the cost of living since birth rates started to drop? I'll bet that it's as little as possible while still technically not being zero, and I'll bet it's taxed as earned income.

[–] Blapoo@lemmy.ml 19 points 11 months ago (1 children)

gestures broadly

I can't imagine signing anyone else up for this. Not until the trajectory turns in a positive direction

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[–] Snapz@lemmy.world 19 points 11 months ago

They tried EVERYTHING, except...

[–] mycatiskai@lemmy.one 19 points 11 months ago

I grew up lower middle class or more likely upper lower class, my parents both worked and owned a house but it was tough to make ends meet when they were getting older and my dad couldn't move as easily because of injuries.

I still grew up with parents that were home from work everyday, good food, lights, heat and internet were never cut off. I couldn't do what my parents did for me. I have a great job, my partner is much better educated has the opportunity to get much more important jobs and we earn more than 135k a year but it would be impossible to raise kids, even just one as well as my parents raised me and my sister.

Why would I want to raise a child in a worse environment than I grew up in? I can see why immigrants come in and have a family. Their next generation will likely have a far better life in Canada than in their home countries. I welcome others to have a better life here than back in their home countries and have kids here.

[–] BigMacHole@lemm.ee 19 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Ensuring families have access to Child Healthcare, parents have time to parent their kids, kids have capable and loving parents and communities have programs to ensure the wellbeing of the children is SOCIALISM!

-Pro Life Republicans trying to Save The Children

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[–] Rediphile@lemmy.ca 19 points 11 months ago (10 children)

Good. Lowering the birth rate at the global scale = more resources per person.

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[–] capt_wolf@lemmy.world 18 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I'd be happy to have kids if you paid me! In fact, not having enough money is literally the whole fucking reason behind many of us not having kids! Businesses have lost the ideal that if you make your workers prosperous, they will make your company prosper. People can't even afford rent, let alone children now!

I have 4 friends in their mid to late 30s who have had to move back in with their parents this year because they can no longer afford to live on their own. Meanwhile, I've got relatives asking all the time, so when are you and the Mrs going to have a kid? I'm having to decide between my own medical bills, food, utilities and you want me to add a child to that? Go ahead and start paying me. Cause right now, in this economic climate, that's the only way it's gonna work!

[–] Aztechnology@lemmy.world 16 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

I agree with most the points others in this thread make about the economy having gotten worse such that it discourages more kids.. I have a decent job and if I had a second child I think I would never have a chance at retirement.

I am also curious about rising infertility.... My wife and I had go through ivf to even have one child.. This after 7 years of trying..

Several of our peers and friends have struggled with this as well.. It could just be a coincidence but we only know around 20 other couples outside of work and at least 6 of them have not been able to produce children naturally.

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[–] phoneymouse@lemmy.world 16 points 11 months ago

Pay me. If you want me to raise your future workers. Pay me enough to live and raise them. It used to be possible to support a family of 7 on one income with a house and two cars in the driveway. People can barely keep their heads above water nowadays on two incomes. Since it requires two incomes, there is no time for child raising. The government doesn’t provide guarantees of time off to have them, doesn’t provide daycare so you can keep your job, and doesn’t provide healthcare. No, instead we write blank checks to the Pentagon and give the rich tax cuts.

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