this post was submitted on 09 Jan 2024

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Truly the most important stuff is Culture War (lemm.ee)

submitted 10 months ago by Kidplayer_666@lemm.ee to c/memes@lemmy.world

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[–] Haagel@lemmings.world 50 points 10 months ago

mes@lemmy.ml-2824969

[–] lewdian69@lemmy.world 26 points 10 months ago (1 children)

There was never an actual social ladder. There's a social lottery

[–] Kidplayer_666@lemm.ee 2 points 10 months ago

As far as I am concerned, there was one. My grand grandparents either didn’t know how to write or at most had the 4th grade, poor farmers in the middle of nowhere. My grandparents all got high school done and ascended to low middle class. Their kids all got to uni and all got to proper middle to middle high class. Only in my generation does it look like uni and other formal education may not be available for a relevant portion of the population, thanks to the great work of the so called ”Socialist Party” (as socialist as I am a frog)

[–] Lauchs@lemmy.world 22 points 10 months ago (2 children)

In my more conspiratorial moments I wonder if social media driven social justice is encouraged by the elites to keep us fighting over whether the movies have enough gay/Black/trans actors, critical race theory, trans bathrooms etc so that inequality and serious change never come up meaningfully.

Were I one of the wealthy elite, I could think of no better ally in the fight to support the status quo than twitter social justice.

To be clear, I think most of those folks are doing what they believe is right and I generally agree but it also creates a giant schism between Left and Right when it should be about Haves and Have nots.

[–] skweetis@kbin.social 12 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Trans people actually need to use the bathroom sometimes.

[+] Lauchs@lemmy.world -7 points 10 months ago (1 children)

You know who doesn't have to use the bathroom? Dead Palestinian kids who might still be alive if we changed the statistics quo and dismantled the military industrial complex instead of incredibly narrow culture war battles.

You know who has serious bathroom problems? The literally billions of people at risk from climate change because we are stuck in the status quo and fighting culture war battles on the margins.

In an ideal world, yeah, everyone would agree with me on everything. But as that's not the case, we have to prioritize. And I think that while trans bathrooms are a tragic issue, being drawn into those fights keeps the status who and condemns billions to suffer.

It's like we're trying to win the battle but lose the war except we're only managing to stalemate the battle while also losing the war.

[–] grumpycactus@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I think the people fighting those issues "on the margins" are likely accomplishing more on the issues you claim are important too though? It's not either or. You don't have to choose to only care about one thing.

The conspiracy part of my mind thinks people saying things like you're saying just don't like trans people, but ultimately don't really care about Palestinian children or climate change either. I'll take people that actually fight for something.

[–] Lauchs@lemmy.world 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

It's not either or. You don't have to choose to only care about one thing.

On a personal level, absolutely.

But, we just, and probably permanently lost a huge swathe of the Amazon in part because Bolsonaro won votes on a vague anti woke platform.

The American public iirc, disagrees with the Republican party on most major issues like climate change, gun safety and healthcare. But, children are still shot in schools because Republicans don't need to campaign on issues, they campaign on being anti woke.

I don't have a solution. I don't think we can or should stop talking about marginalized groups. But, the fact is that social justice is also enabling things that have and will have increasingly devastating effects on the most vulnerable people on Earth.

[–] skweetis@kbin.social 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Oh please. Allowing fascists to terrorize queer people and ban books about slavery isn't going to save the Palestinian children. Who are you? I feel pretty confident that if someone wanted to examine your life for five seconds we could see how you bathe daily in the blood of innocent children. Let's start with whatever device you're posting on and the energy that powers it. Let's clean up your life before we consider throwing trans people to the wolves. I'm sure you will gladly sacrifice yourself for the cause.

[–] Lauchs@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Instead of leaping to what aboutism, look at what I wrote and tell me what part is incorrect!

Republicans don't run on issues, they run and WIN on being anti woke. As are many other leaders who have reprehensible and deeply unpopular views, Bolsonaro, Mielei, la Pen, trump and all the would be Republicans etc.

Like I said, I don't have a solution but the fact is that the ones destroying the world are doing so by running in opposition to social justice despite having massively unpopular positions on issues. It's upsetting but also the truth.

But, if you really want to compare, okay. I'm imperfect but do my best; my device is refurbished, my furniture is almost all second hand (except a chair and my mattress), my clothes are almost all second hand or sweat free (I couldn't find ethical jersies for my team or camping fleece), I haven't had a microwave for almost a month because I've been trying to find one second hand, while I do eat meat it's almost never beef and despite working out and eating a boatload of protein try to make as many veggie meals as I can. Despite making an upper middle class living for most of the last decade I've been car free until last year (I didn't want to get covid on the ski bus with a bunch of kids again.) Hell, even my cat is second hand. My biggest sins (I think) are probably my tv and speaker as I haven't found ethical/second hand versions. How about you?

Edit: Oh right, I also take a significant pay cut to work at a non profit so that more marginalized youth can go to University as so believe that's the best anti poverty engine around.

[+] skweetis@kbin.social 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

[deleted]

[–] Lauchs@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

It seems you are fundamentally misunderstanding. I'll try in a few bullet points, that might make it easier for you.

Social justice on social media is now the primary target for multiple successful right wing politicians. Earlier moments, like gay marriage, tended to be suplementary issues whereas now they are more or less the entire focus.
In America at least, an overwhelming majority of people support climate change action, gun control, universal healthcare etc.
Despite that broad support on most progressive issues, left wing politicians are losing winnable elections.
The right wing policies that come about as a result of their successful anti woke campaigns have disastrous climate effects.
Climate change will disproportionately affect the most vulnerable people on Earth.

I hope that helps make things a bit more clear for you!

Edit: Actually, your car comparison, while pretty unrelated to any point I'm making is kind of useful here. Much like cars, social justice comes with a cost. Insisting that there is no cost is just as silly as when climate change deniers argue that cars don't have an impact or that we all need them anyway so what are we going to do etc. Social justice, while fun (who doesn't love a chance to be snarky on the internet in defense of the oppressed without any work or sacrifice?!?) is coming at a cost which we refuse to acknowledge.

[–] Sotuanduso@lemm.ee 3 points 10 months ago

Occupy Wall Street was 2011.

I took Google Ngrams with some various terms around social justice, set smoothing to 0, and sorted the outcomes. Feel free to verify; I'm no expert.

Tested terms (alphabetical order): Bigot, Bisexual, Black, Cisgender, Civil Rights, Critical Race Theory, Discrimination, Diversity, Empowerment, Equality, Equity, Gay, Gentrification, Hate Speech, Heterosexual, Homosexual, HRT, Human Rights, Identity Politics, Inclusive, Inequality, Intersectionality, Lesbian, LGBT, Liberation, Marginalize, Microaggression, Oppression, Privilege, Racism, Representation, Social Justice, Solidarity, Systemic, Transgender

Upturn in 2011/2012, upward trend since: Cisgender, Critical Race Theory, Gentrification, LGBT, Transgender
Downturn in 2011/2012, upward trend since:
Unclear in 2011/2012, upward trend since: Bigot, Bisexual, Hate Speech, Identity Politics, Inclusive, Inequality, Intersectionality, Microaggression, Social Justice
Upturn in 2011/2012, unclear trend since: Discrimination, Gay, Lesbian
Downturn in 2011/2012, unclear trend since: Privilege
Unclear in 2011/2012, unclear trend since: Black, Diversity, Empowerment, Equality, Human Rights, Liberation, Marginalize, Oppression, Racism, Representation, Solidarity, Systemic
Upturn in 2011/2012, downward trend since: Equity, Heterosexual, Homosexual
Downturn in 2011/2012, downward trend since: HRT
Unclear in 2011/2012, downward trend since: Civil Rights

I certainly didn't sort them perfectly. I don't want to tell you what to think, but I will say that I was pretty sure of this theory before running this test, and though I feel the evidence supports it, it wasn't as strong as I thought.

[–] OpenStars@startrek.website 18 points 10 months ago (1 children)

This reads so much worse when you realize that the distraction is the point.

[–] Boozilla@lemmy.world 18 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Voter: Please address our material interests.

Politicians: Nah, let's all get violent over pronouns and bathrooms and Christmas and school books.

[–] OpenStars@startrek.website 1 points 10 months ago

Voter: m'okay, works for me!

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 9 points 10 months ago

This is what Republicans love, hence all the rheeeeeeing about it.

Transgenders in bathrooms? OMG OMG, RIOT! Forget that we're robbing you blind, making everyone poor and ruining the Country, focus on the next tiny insignificant issue that no one really cares about!

Even the illegal immigration thing is nothing but a diversion. There are issues die to immigration in the US being handled horrible, but that is by design, they want something to point at.

[–] AllonzeeLV@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Not to even mention that most social issues are exacerbated by our disgraceful economic inequity, but we're only allowed to argue the symptoms, as our beloved ~~society~~ market capitalist economy is too perfect and sacred to change to Republicans and Neoliberals alike.

Abortions are often economic decisions, for example, and correctly so when you can't afford to raise a child. If you want significantly fewer abortions, living wages, paid maternity leave, social supports etc would do that, as just 1 example.

[–] metaStatic@kbin.social 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Are republicans not neoliberals?

[–] AllonzeeLV@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

Neoliberalism means supposedly socially liberal while economically for muh "free market" capitalism.

This is almost all modern Democrats. Republicans are both for muh "free market" capitalism and going back to no same sex marriage, no gender equality, jim crow preferential treatment for whites, etc. Neoliberals don't care if 2 homeless dudes want to get married and live in the same cardboard box in the gutter, which makes them better than the Republicans... a little.

I say "Republicans and Neoliberals" because within the Democrats in power, there are a tiny minority that actually seem to care and propose policies that would help fight inequity, like Sanders and AOC, but they are hated by their own party more than their own party hates the fascists accross the aisle.

[–] Zoboomafoo@slrpnk.net 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Well the important part is that you feel superior to both

[–] AllonzeeLV@lemmy.world 1 points 10 months ago

Not a high bar.

[–] Gigan@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

The media talks about inequality all the time