Let me preface by saying, I would love to hear counter points and am fully open to the fact that I could be wrong and totally out of touch. I just want to have some dialogue around something that’s been bothering me in the fediverse.

More and more often I keep hearing people refer to “normies”. I think by referring to other people as “normies”, whether you intend to or not, you inadvertently gatekeep and create an exclusive environment rather than an inclusive one in the fediverse.

If I was not that familiar with the fediverse and decided to check it out and the first thing I read was a comment about “normies”, I would quite honestly be very put off. It totally has a negative connotation and doesn’t even encapsulate any one group. I just read a comment about someone grouping a racist uncle and funny friend into the same category of normie because they aren’t up to date on the fediverse or super tech savvy or whatever.

I don’t want to see any Meta bs in the fediverse. I barely want to see half of the stuff from Reddit in the fediverse. I don’t want to see the same echo chamber I do everywhere else.

I do want to see more users and more perspectives and a larger user base though. I want to see kindness and compassion. I want to talk to people about topics they are interested in. I want to have relevant discussions without it dissolving into some commentary on some unrelated hot topic thing.

I think calling people normies creates a more toxic, exclusive place which I personally came here to avoid.

Just my two cents! I know for most people using the term it isn’t meant to be malicious, but I think it comes off that way.

Love to hear all of your thoughts.

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[–] RxBrad@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Or....

"Normie" shows a hint of self awareness that the people on this platform aren't representative of the general public. We're a bunch of tech weirdos.

We're the "abnormies".

[–] pjhenry1216@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Pretending there isn't any condescension toward the "normies" when using the term is blatantly exhibiting the exact behavior the OP referenced. It's not how inclusivity works in a community at all. It alienates anyone that isn't already a part of it.

[–] RxBrad@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Why? Because I don't expect a person who's not entrenched in a specific hobby to understand the ins-and-outs of that hobby?

It's not condescension. It's setting reasonable expectations.

[–] quasi_moto@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

No of course it's reasonable that they wouldn't understand the ins and outs. The op and commenter you're replying to are talking about the connotation of the word, not the fact that a hobbyist understands their hobby.

Take the term Trekkie for example -- people who are into star trek can become Trekkies which symbolizes that they've joined a community. That term can be used to mean that two people both belong to a community (i.e., "we're Trekkies") or it can be used to refer negatively to people in that community by those who aren't in it (i.e., "Trekkies smell bad").

There are (at least) two things happening here that people are picking up on. One is that context matters, and the way that the term normie is often used is not a positive one. I've personally never seen anyone refer to themself proudly as a normie, have you? And the other is that we're referring to normies, a group we ostensibly don't belong to, as a homogeneous blob which is obviously not accurate.

I doubt anyone's feelings are especially hurt if they're called a normie, but that doesn't mean it isn't a dismissive and usually negatively valenced term used to refer to a massive and diverse group of people.

[–] RxBrad@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

To me, normie just signifies a person outside a given niche hobby.

I'm into having a Plex server in my basement. People not into that are normies in a conversation about having a Plex server. I don't expect them to know how to setup QuickSync hardware encoding in a Plex Docker container.

I don't like anime. To people who like anime, I'm the normie. I think Trunks is just a really cool Mastodon client. I only vaguely know it's also a Dragonball character. If you expect me to know more than this, you're going to be disappointed.

There's no judgment involved.

[–] pjhenry1216@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

I mean, read even just half the comments on just one page of comments here and you should see that it's extremely common to not use the word in the manner you're stating. We're not talking about that nor is the poster.

[–] sab@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

There's a hint of elitism to it though, at least as it's commonly used.

I saw a comment the other day that referred to Instagram users as "people you wouldn't want to associate yourself with". I don't know who these people think normal people are.

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Many of us are also not nuerotypical. Another word for typical is normal.

[–] Ilikecheese@vlemmy.net 1 points 1 year ago

Many is not all. And by creating an us vs them mentality where I’m “us” for the most part, but not for the whole part, there’s situations where the need to choose is being presented. It’s gatekeeping for the sake of gatekeeping, and really isn’t part of a healthy community of people.

[–] grady77@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I guess that’s something I didn’t consider. I kind of feel like that is still creating an us vs them mentality though…

[–] DmMacniel@feddit.de 0 points 1 year ago (3 children)

But that's pretty much what a group of people is? The people who are inside the group and those that are outside. What is the problem with this?

[–] ttmrichter@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

You missed to very key letters here. Here's the original statement with the two key letters highlighted:

[...]creating an us →vs← them mentality though…

Nobody that I've seen here has said that there is no "in" or "out" vis a vis the group. The objection is over those two key letters.

[–] grady77@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean not get too far down that rabbit hole, but I would argue that we are all human beings first and we all belong to many different groups, not just one.

And I think you’re missing my point.

[–] DmMacniel@feddit.de 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

of course can groups overlap, and we are all humans but that doesn't mean that group dynamics are a bad thing?

[–] pjhenry1216@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

These aren't actual group dynamics. In any way. Exclusion and "us vs them" is not a positive group dynamic. Do not promote it.

[–] DrNeurohax@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

So you're saying there are people who DO use "normies" and people that DON'T use "normies". These are not two groups of people. Shit, I just joined this thread, so that makes ME one of YOU, and there's OTHERS that aren't here. Are WE the elitists? Or are THEY the "normies"? YOU said there's no there's no US or THEM, so EVERYONE is talking in this thread. ANYONE not in this thread must not exist because I know I exist, so YOU thread posters must exist, but wait, that makes ME an US and YOU a THEM.

(I'm not trying to be snarky, but this argument is exactly as nonsensical.)

[–] Zorque@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

The problem isn't that that exists, it's when people decide that not being in the group is bad, and not just a casual state of being.

[–] morphballganon@mtgzone.com 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Normie is a term used in many circles, not exclusively fediverse. I don't think it's a slur, as the people who use it aren't inciting violence or enacting discriminatory pricing or whatever. It's like calling a person boring.

[–] BaldManGoomba@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Normies just means people who aren't in the in group and to me means we are the weird ones, exclusive group or have uncommon interests or knowledge.

It is important to be self aware that in the context of the fediverse and meme culture things you are use to are weird, different, and sometimes confusing. Perfect example has been the beans and the 3 day poop thing. Normal people don't get and will think it is weird if they know nothing about the trend. Another example is I am a rock climber if I reference a jug or a sloper it means nothing to normies or people unaware of the lingo. So a jug joke isn't something other people get

[–] sangle_of_flame@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

nah, you're right

the term always gives me images of channer culture; like it reminds me when the internet as a whole thought that 4chan and its ilk were cool and elite for being shitty for "lulz"

it needs to be retired

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I heard usage of "Normie" way back on usenet long before 4chan even existed.

[–] TORFdot0@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Doesn’t “normie” come from /b/? I don’t think I saw it used anywhere else until shitposting subs like /r/dankmemes started calling who don’t use memes correctly normies

[–] ttmrichter@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

Uh ... I was in circles that used words like "norms" and "normals" and, yes, "normies" before the Internet was a "thing". SF fandom of the '70s was easily as nerdy and toxic as are any of today's Internet circle jerks.

Sorry, Kiddies^1^, but very little of what you do is new. Sometimes the techniques are new (because technology happened) but humans have been human for, well, as long as humans have existed.

^1^ If you're finding this word offensive, you might want to take a long, hard look at how you use words like the one that triggered this thread before the inevitable downvoting.

[–] fubo@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

A slur always tells you more about the person who uses it than about the person they're referring to.

[–] TwilightVulpine@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It really does say a lot when the dreaded other that they want to avoid is someone who is normal.

[–] fubo@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

To be completely blunt about it, if someone uses "normie" seriously, I expect they also think they're oppressed by age-of-consent laws and possibly also laws against rape. At the very least, they don't own a TV because there aren't enough lolis on basic cable.

[–] TwilightVulpine@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

Sucks that we have to deal with those types but I wouldn't go so far lump them all like that. I feel like some of it might involve neurodivergent people who just don't feel like they get the best of treatment out there. But just this elitism driven by terminally-online brain rot can get bad enough by itself, it's not a good mindset.

[–] 001100010010@lemmy.dbzer0.com 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

How about "I hate Terfs"? What does that make me?

[–] Peregrinus@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

if terf isn't a slur, Normie isn't either. people seem to get irrationally upset about the word normal. normal is a well defined word, the same way cis is but it seems one group is fine with one whilst the other isn't.

instead of focusing on labels and how much they upset you (I don't mean who I am replying to), focus on understanding and respecting people's differences, regardless of terminology.

[–] nyar@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (2 children)

TERF isn't a slur, it's an accurate descriptor.

Terfs are trans exclusionary. Terfs are on the borders of feminist thought, making them radical (and not in the cool way).

They only want it to be a slur so they aren't accurately described as what they are.

[–] nuzzlerat@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Actually I think it is quite a stretch to call them feminists in any way. 99% of the time they ally with the far right and many of their leaders advocate against things like contraception and healthcare for women

[–] Blamemeta@lemmy.world -2 points 1 year ago

Thats more of the term being overused. Only a vanishing small number of people are terfs.

[–] Kinglink@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

Yeah but "Radical"... TERFS ain't radical, nor bodacious nor totally tubular dude!

Accept everyone, that's the TMNT way!

[–] Vez@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Often times the only reason people use certain trigger words is because they know they are trigger words. The more you reveal your triggers, the more some people will use them.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

It's not "triggering" it's stupid.

Saying something is stupid doesn't mean you're upset.

This is something most people figure out before they get their drivers license

[–] sadreality@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

normie = person who comes into discussion without much understanding of the topic but lacks self awareness to understand their limited perspective.

classic example would be:

commenter: Big tech and government collude to spy on us

normie; I got nothing to hide!

[–] pjhenry1216@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If anyone reads this whole thread, the problem and lack of self awareness of the danger of this word becomes apparent. There are folks who say it means something entirely different than what you just said. It's clear this is a loaded word and you're making it clear that it is indeed an insult. Communities grow and your perspective isn't necessarily always the best. Growth is difficult and differing opinions aren't always bad. The issue is when people bring hate into it. Tolerance is important, but one can never tolerate intolerance.

[–] sadreality@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Being called out for asine opinions not grounded in reality is part of the growing process.

Under your logic, bad faith or stupid actors deserve a discussion beyond providing facts. This is the internet, not baby sitting service.

Community establishes a consensus and if you come with counter point, you better bring facts.

If the community can't facethe facts, it will turn into echo chamber.

Reddit got a ton of those. Trying to step up discourse here though.

[–] pjhenry1216@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That literally isn't my logic at all. You just made up your own claim and argued against it. I never said they deserve anything beyond admission. You are free to ignore people. You do truly understand that right? You can ignore stupid. You don't need to discuss with everyone. But not letting them in the room because of some preconceived prejudice is absolutely an asinine opinion and not grounded in reality. I never said you have to discuss things with people. You're the one who seems to think people are owed some sort of discussion. I'm not even sure where you got such a ridiculous notion. And you even missed the whole point where half this thread literally disagreed with you in regards to what the word means. You're a prime example of acting elitist and holier than thou for some unknown reason. And then you serve as a prime example of the kind of person you want to keep out. You use ridiculously bad logic and horrible arguments and opinions. Honestly, you're either a brilliant troll or an atrocious idiot. The line is so thin, it's hard to tell.

[–] sadreality@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago

Wtf

[–] genoxidedev1@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"Normie" is one of the few words that I cringe over everytime I read it. I consider myself to be in, or adjacent to, the group of people that would use that word, since I am tech affinitive and that group is usually the one that uses it. But I cringe everytime I see it used unironically because I don't want non-tech affinitive (or lesser affinitive) people to lump every person that has something to do with IT or similar into the group of people they don't want nothing to do with because they're always condescending towards them.

It's literally like as if you're saying "Did you know that I have an IQ of 150?".

You're not gatekeeping anyone out of your life by using that word, you're gatekeeping yourself out of every "normal" persons life by using that word.

[–] DrNeurohax@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I 100% agree that word is cringe and I'm totally into the fediverse for the long haul, but we have to address the pachyderm in the room: The word "Fediverse" is just as cringe.

I, ... I'm sorry. I can read it in a document, but the second a human being types it, I can't take it seriously. I don't care if folks want to shorten it to something like the FI (Federated Instances). Yes, there are other uses of the word "federate", but it immediately sounds like a federal intraweb domain or a group of Star Trek policy makers.

"Fediverse" is "netizen 2.0."
"Fediverse" is "cruising on the information superhighway Pro."
Please tell me I'm not alone in thinking this.

[–] ttmrichter@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

You're not alone, no. "Fediverse" is almost, but not quite, as silly a term as "Metaverse".

[–] WhoRoger@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I just see the term to mean the opposite of specialist, or someone who is passionate about the topic.

In internet terms, it generally means not a geek.

It's a good distinction, because for geeks, internet is something inherently interesting on a technological and philosophical level. For, well, normies, it's just an appliance they don't need to know much about.

Similarly if you go to a car show but don't really know shit about cars other than they have 4 wheels, you're a normie in that environment. Your requirements on what a car should be like, are fundamentally different from someone who likes to tweak and tinker.

I wish the term could just mean that without any negative connotations, because I don't see anything wrong with that distinction.

Ed/add: Nobody can know everything about every topic, so everyone is a normie in some category. Usually without realising it. So that's just it. Not necessarily an insult, and doesn't even make much sense as one, I think.

[–] hutchmcnugget@lemmy.world 0 points 1 year ago

I have seen the word normie used in almost exclusively sarcastic or tongue in cheek contexts.