this post was submitted on 25 Mar 2024
15 points (94.1% liked)

Formula 1

9056 readers
59 users here now

Welcome to Formula1 @ Lemmy.world Lemmy's largest community for Formula 1 and related racing series


Rules


  1. Be respectful to everyone; drivers, lemmings, redditors etc
  2. No gambling, crypto or NFTs
  3. Spoilers are allowed
  4. Non English articles should include a translation in the comments by deepl.com or similar
  5. Paywalled articles should include at least a brief summary in the comments, the wording of the article should not be altered
  6. Social media posts should be posted as screenshots with a link for those who want to view it
  7. Memes are allowed on Monday only as we all do like a laugh or 2, but don’t want to become formuladank.

Up next


F1 Calendar

2024 Calendar

Location Date
🇺🇸 United States 21-23 Nov
🇶🇦 Qatar 29 Nov-01 Dec
🇦🇪 Abu Dhabi 06-08 Dec

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

Mercedes has not “swallowed a dumb pill” since winning its last Formula 1 title, as team boss Toto Wolff says he does not currently feel the need to step aside.

top 7 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Coelacanth@feddit.nu 7 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

I think it's more the results of the brain drain I remember talk of during the big poaching campaigns from Red Bull and Aston back in 2021.

The overarching Mercedes design philosophy also doesn't seem suited for ground effect cars, which was a problem during 2022 especially (though they might have changed philosophy since). They used to want to build a very peaky car, and then use their tools and know-how to get the car into that narrow operating window. That doesn't seem like a good approach with these regs, however. Partly because the strict suspension rules that hit Merc hard, and partly because these ground effect cars seem to favour a wider operating window.

It also must be said that something is obviously wrong with their wind tunnel/CFD setup. Maybe it's related to the personnel they've lost, maybe it's something systemic that only made itself known with ground effect cars for one reason or another. But it's now three straight years running where they've had massive correlation issues and had to publicly and repeatedly state "yes well, the car isn't performing and we don't understand why".

[–] soEZ@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I really wounder how much edge they had pre 2022 simply due to engine power that let them overcome inefficient aero. RB had shat engines for a long time and invested a ton into aero it seems and now with reliable pu its really paying of for them..for merc though it looks like current pu has same power or maybe less then others and their aero understanding is sub par, even when compared to customer teams.

[–] Coelacanth@feddit.nu 1 points 7 months ago

It's possible. 2021 and beyond I certainly started noticing mediocre pitstops and too-safe strategies in a way I hadn't before. Whether it was all engine or not I'm not sure, but the team certainly had weaknesses masked by their dominance.

[–] Sentau@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

big poaching campaigns from Red Bull and Aston back in 2021.

It was mostly Aston poaching chassis and aero related engineers. Red bull were exclusively poaching PU staff because they were establishing RBPT.

I agree with a comment below which points out that merc had massive PU advantage which was masking mediocrity in other areas. Other then 2020, merc has never had the best aero during the turbo hybrid era

[–] acosmichippo@lemmy.world 6 points 7 months ago

all the people who took smart pills left.

[–] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Honestly, as much as Merc have fumbled this set of regs, I think a big part of it isn't that they're dumb or anything silly like that.

If you look at the grid with Red Bull removed, sure they wouldn't be dominant, but they'd be up there battling and clinching championships by the skin of their teeth.

I think a big part of it isn't actually on Merc themselves. It's because people are comparing them to RB.

These regs are a dream come true for RB. They have literally the only chief aero guy who worked in the last ground effect era. That's massive! And this guy also wrote his thesis on ground effect aerodynamics. Red Bull was always going to do well under these regs (I must admit just how dominant they are is still surprising to me).

Once you add stuff like the FIA banning suspension setups like those Mercedes absolutely excel in, it looks even worse.

[–] GreenEngineering3475@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

If you look at the grid with Red Bull removed, sure they wouldn't be dominant, but they'd be up there battling and clinching championships by the skin of their teeth.

Early loses to Mclaren (enginer customer) and Aston (engine customer team) this year.Both of which have done good job developing the car and are performing quite well.Doesn't make them look good.

Mercedes should be competitive with Ferrari (for P2 in constructors) and they are nowhere close to them.

Red Bull was always going to do well under these regs (I must admit just how dominant they are is still surprising to me).

I am surprised to, seeing what they have able to pull off.

I really want Mercedes to get it back together and make it a proper three way fight for podiums.