Actual conservative here. To me it mostly means a defense of the essential culture and values of Christendom, AKA Western civilization.
10A
joined 1 year ago
I have had no interaction with anyone from Hexbear. Personally do not support Russia or the CCP, But I also stand against defederation, regardless of their stances on any topic. It doesn't make someone a "inflammatory troll" just because they hold different opinions than you. Even if there really are inflammatory trolls coming from that server, it should be enough to block them if you personally dislike them. In general, it's healthy to expose ourselves to a wide diversity of opinions, and to respectfully discuss topics with people who disagree with us.
No matter what I answer here, it will just feed into this no true scottsman fallacy you have with the definition of "christian".
I don't have that fallacy in my definition of "Christian" at all. A Christian is a genuine follower of Christ, of which there are many, and many more every day. The fact that some people claim to be Christian without actually following Christ does not mean there's no true Christian. It's entirely possible for you to choose to become Christian.
I don't get any value out of bible verses. It's just junk to me even if I understand it.
The only value we can have in life comes from God. When someone gives you a Bible verse, that is likely the most valuable thing you receive all day, if not all year.
And on that point, we have reached an impasse. I must abide by 2 Timothy 3:2-5, and turn away:
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Thank you for all of this thought-provoking conversation. I wish you all of the best, and I pray you may yet find God.
It seems you are starting your argument with the premise that we aren't responsible, and then concluding that we aren't responsible.
My starting premise is God, and with penitent humility, God is my foregone conclusion.
You cannot have your conclusion as one of your premises, because that's just a circular argument.
It's not an argument of any type. It's a humble acknowledgment of He who is in control.
That's not what I said [that "all prophets are heretics"].
What you said, specifically, was, "That's all assuming you know god's plan which is heretical." A prophet is someone who knows God's plan as it applies to many people. So yes, you claimed that prophets are heretics. Now I'm no prophet, but like any Christian, I maintain a relationship with God and I read Scripture, so I know God's plan to the limited extent He reveals it to me. That's not heresy.
somebody doesn't need to be christian to hold true beliefs or have valid arguments
You're either with God or you're against God. Anyone who sides with Satan cannot be trusted. They might indeed make true statements or valid arguments now and then, but they can only do so in service of the Beast, attempting to lead others down the road to Hell.
Second, it's an argument from authority.
Nothing wrong with respecting authorities, and trusting their assessments. God is, after all, the Lord of Lords and King of Kings.
Third, it's a setup for a no true scottsman fallacy, because no matter who I bring up you'll call them a false christian because you've already defined a christian to be somebody who holds your own views exactly.
I don't deny there's a non-zero chance of the discussion playing out that way, but in practice I think there are just about zero climate scientists who call themselves Christians yet also think human beings could have caused climate change. If you find any examples, I'll be rather curious what denominations they affiliate with. There are certainly a few crazy leftist denominations out there that seem to have fully rejected God, so it's possible a few such climate scientists exist. If they do, and you were to find them, of course you're right that I'd have to question their church's Statement of Faith. But that's no fallacy; it's just recognizing that Christianity is incompatible with the premise that humans could possibly cause climate change.
This question is a ridiculous goal post that quite clearly on wheels, able to move the moment I name a name.
My only goal post is your acceptance of Christ.
Then I have misunderstood the term, I apologize.
Apology accepted. In case you're curious to learn about it, you might click here. It's a good topic for online classes, in case you ever find yourself with spare time.
I absolutely was raised as a christian, having been tought Jesus' word.
Did they skip all the parts about mammon, or did you just ignore them? They're fairly central to Jesus's ministry.
That doesn't mean it is true though [that it's Gospel].
It does, in fact.
Yeah, it's all kind of just meaningless to me. It would be like if I told you to read a passage with a vague moral from a Star Trek book. It's all just fiction, made by men.
Even if it was written in Klingon, I'd do my best to read it and wrap my head around the point you were trying to make.
All of the Bible verses I've quoted to you and linked to you have been (by far) the wisest and truest words I'm able to speak. In most if not all cases, they've provided the point I was trying to make. So I find it discouraging and disheartening to know you haven't been reading them, and seriously considering them.
Whenever you encounter a quote from the Bible, begin by thinking to yourself that you're about to read something true and holy — even if you don't believe that yet, start out by telling yourself that. Then ask God — and I know you deny Him, but at least try your best to ask God — that you may receive His holy words with a sober mind, and that you may unquestioningly accept their eternal truth. Then read, and reread, and read once more, the passage until you know it well. Read the context of the passage, as much context as needed, and read it in various other translations, to help you deeply understand its truth.
And with that, yet again, I strongly advise you to study Matthew 6:24-34. That's certainly not the only thing you ought to read, but it'd be a solid start.
If the devil had a holy book you'd see the same thing about how the devil is the good guy.
Do you not see how ridiculous this argument is? Of course the Devil lies, but the difference between God and Satan is under most circumstances glaringly obvious.
I linked it because it is the golden standard for belief, and it requires evidence before belief.
The golden standard for belief is a mustard seed.
I've been having these sorts of conversations with christians for over a decade.
And who do you think has been motivating you to do that? Time and again, it is the Holy Spirit who moves you. God loves you despite your continued rejection of Him. Yet every time you receive another opportunity to drink of His water, you instead choose to follow your demons.
it's not. I'm honestly just talking with you for the sake of enjoyment at this point.
I'm guessing you didn't actually read Romans 1:18-32. Please do. If you can be honest with yourself, you'll find it all too familiar. What you call "the sake of enjoyment" is described.
Nope, evidence must come before belief, and belief is not a direct choice.
Faith exists only because belief is a direct choice. Surely you don't deny the existence of faith.
God gave us dominion, what is dominion if not complete control?
We find the answer is in Scripture. Let's review Genesis 1:26-28:
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
That is the specific nature of our dominion.
And again, we definitely have the power to do so because there is mountains of scientific evidence showing that humans are responsible for climate change.
That's agenda-driven nonsense. There can be no evidence showing cause-and-effect for something that we didn't cause in the first place. Show me one Christian scientist who believes people caused climate change.
That's all assuming you know god's plan which is heretical.
So now all prophets are heretics? Are you joking?
Responsibility for our own actions should be the default. I don't mean to be glib but of all people I would have hoped a conservative would understand that.
I fully agree, 100%. We're not responsible for climate change because it's not the result of our own actions. We are each individually responsible for our own individual actions, though, yes.
I'm probably more of a game theorist than you if I am being honest. I've done game development on the side for a little while now.
That's like a plumber claiming he's familiar with the Plumb Line Method of theoretical physics because it has the word "plumb" in it. Game development requires no understanding of game theory.
People can't afford to do that though. It is a financially bad decision to put yourself at financial risk of losing your home, transportation, or food source.
I find it confusing that you thought you used to be a Christian, when not only did you never form a relationship with God, but you never even learned Jesus's teachings. I quoted from the Sermon on the Mount to you. This is literally Gospel. Again, I strongly advise you to study Matthew 6:24-34.
Then like I said earlier, you have no method to determine what you worship is a good being.
I quoted the true word of God — the holy Bible. When you parrot your demons who claim it's false, you reveal your foolish allegiance, but still you must know deep in your heart that God is good.
I'm not trying to prove anything here. If you think I am, I have to wonder what led you to think that.
My primary goal here should be readily obvious: Matthew 28:19–20, the Great Commission. I am planting a seed, and praying your soil is fertile.
Your primary goal here, by contrast, is laid out in Romans 1:18-32. I pray your disposition is temporary and reversible.
If you think you have evidence that I haven't seen before I am all ears.
You're fully immersed in it. But until you establish a penitent relationship with God, you are blind.
Nope. I have no evidence for it, so I do not believe it. It has nothing to do with my intelligence.
If you're honestly not trying to prove how clever you are, then submit to God in faith, and the copious evidence can then be revealed to you.
Once again, belief is not a choice.
No matter how much you insist upon that, I repeatedly choose to believe in the Lord our God. I accept that you don't yet understand how belief can be a choice, but it most certainly is.
And correlation does not imply causation, therefore you cannot rationally say that being religious makes you more happy.
I have zero doubt that the cause of happiness is God's blessing. Joy is quintessentially Christian.
So you just don't question whether or not god is good or evil, have I understood correctly?
Nobody has the rightful authority to question the word of God. I quoted a verse from the Bible to you. We accept God's word without question because we are His humble servants. It would be arrogant to suppose we have permission to question His word, and it would be evil for us to desire to question His word. When you are presented with a Bible quote, you accept it as true and holy. When a demon tells you to question it, or claims that it's false, you repent and ask Jesus to shield you from this demonic temptation. In the end, we must always conclude that the word of God is correct.
Like I said earlier, whichever way you mean, nobody is whispering anything in my ears.
And yet you continue to demonstrate clear evidence to the contrary. If you're not plagued by demons then show me your embrace of God.
But to the best of my ability to understand, this is not something I am wrong about.
You put understanding before faith. That's backwards. I assure you, this is something you are wrong about.
We have pretty strong evidence to suggest that dark matter exists.
True, but we have a thousand times more evidence to confirm that God exists. Evidence to which you are blind.
[Re: "Is it intelligent to want to be happy?"] Sure, but lying to yourself will never make you happy. You're asking me to lie to myself.
If (A) I was asking you to lie to yourself, and (B) lying to yourself will never make you happy, then (C) actively religious people cannot be happier than irreligious people.
This is basic logic: A ∧ B ∴ C
And yet (C) is demonstrably false, an assertion which I substantiated with hard data. And that was just one survey. Survey after survey repeatedly demonstrates that actively religious people are far happier.
I'll reply to some of the various other things you wrote, but this is the heart of our discussion. The crux, if you will. Your perspective is that you're too smart to believe in God, and you refuse to acknowledge that God blesses His faithful believers with happiness. You believe that intelligent people choose unhappiness despite the obvious fact that it would be rather unwise to intentionally choose unhappiness, by virtue of the very definition of happiness. The only possible explanation for your insistent rejection of God is your unknowing loyalty to Satan, who has successfully convinced you that not even he exists.
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FTFY