xhotaru

What would ensure the central planning mechanism always puts the needs of the people as the goal, and not the needs of the central planning structure, or the needs to perpetuate and protect it?

can you elaborate?

oh yeah I didn't say it was any different in capitalism, it's the same thing. I'm trying to tell you it's mostly the same thing. it's the position of massive control over the economy paired with a goal thats the problem to me, not the ideology of the people in that position, that can lead to variations but the problems with the approach are the same either way

The thing is, it doesn't matter. like... i totally agree that politicians are paid by the capitalists and most are just goons, but even if they weren't goons, they'd behave in the same way. maybe the favours would be less, maybe they would be to different people, they'd do x or y thing differently, but the core abuse of power and trampling are always going to happen, perpetuating your rule and reach and protecting your power and position will always matter more than any reform or serving

of course I'd much rather have strong democratic checks than nothing but I still don't think it'd be enough to justify it

I know I'm kind of a doomer on this but I just have never seen or read about a ruling structure that didn't behave this way

I don't want this power in ANYONE's hands, no matter who they claim to serve

States and governments only serve themselves anyway

YOU NEVER DID

COME ON EXPLAIN IT

thanks

definitely true

There's no difference in the number of powerful assholes in the market or the socialist economy, only a difference in their goals, I think. It's not about what should be right, because regardless it all ends up to the buraucrat with The Plan. The higher you are in the hierarchy the more brutal you are, by how much abstract everything else becomes

Imagine someone trying to argue HIV medicine or glasses don't fulfill a social need because the majority of people don't have AIDS or don't need glasses.

that's the thing I can totally imagine an all powerful economy overseer immagining that! When you're managing at such a high level, it's extremely easy to detach and dehumanize, and think in terms of raw numbers and extreme utilitarianism

I could see a healthy situation where various artisan goods of particular artistic designs have purposefully limited distribution, which incentivizes people to actually visit the state/province/city in order to purchase the good.

That's actually a really good idea! I like that

In that decision is the problem, because that decision is still guided by The Goal, and no matter the number of independent guilds and such, if The Plan denies them resources, they have no other choices.

It doesn't have to be about productivity though. The Goal can be any other thing. Industrialization, militarization, independence, whatever. Whatever The Goal is, the planned economy is subservient to it, and that may result in the things I've been concerned about in this post

What is scary of splitting the planned economy from the independent economy is that the planned economy controls the independent one regardless. Sure, there can be independent worker coops and enterprises and such, to try and make stuff. But they need resources and funding for that stuff, which is definitely mostly generated by the planned part. And the planned part can say "fuck off" at any time. There's a big incentive for them to use this power over them to lead them in certain ways.