Thank you for being one if the few that rip into Hamas at the same time as calling Israel out. I disagree on downvoting them as they contributed to the conversation, but points don't matter.

On point 1, outside of a few extremists I don't think anyone considers all of Palestine to be a part of Hamas - its just how we talk.

America isn't becoming a backwards, puritan and corrupt country - the Republicans are and they held the power. But we don't say that, we just say America is turning to shit. China doesn't have aggressive expansionist goals, the CCP does. Russia isn't a warmongering state, Putin and his running party are.

[–] Sunforged@lemmy.ml 19 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I think if you're going to criticize Hamas you also need to point out that their extremist views were funded by the state of Isreal not only to create the conditions to justify their genocide but also to push out moderate leadership within Palestine.

[–] alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml 6 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

On point 1, outside of a few extremists I don’t think anyone considers all of Palestine to be a part of Hamas

"We're liberating the Palestinian people from Hamas" is a zionist talking point. Learn to recognize that pattern when it's used to justify action against other countries; eg sanctions against Cuba, Syria, Iran, North Korea, which primarily hurt the people.

Most of the other Palestinian parties, some of which have literal had gun battles with Hamas have started working with them since Oct 7. The PLFP knows more about what's good for the future of the Palestinian people than either of us, and they're willing to work with Hamas.

America isn’t becoming a backwards, puritan and corrupt country

I mean it kinda always has been. The government has always been much more reactionary than the people, but it's always been a puritan country with legalized corruption, going as far back as Washington passing taxes to give his distilleries competitive advantage. I can link you some free history books on America, is there any time period that interests you?

China...

The CPC has overwhelming support from the population, it does a better job of representing the people than most western democracies, evidenced by greatest increase in living standards for a large country in history. Do you think it's more likely the people have aggressive expansionist goals, or that you have an incomplete understanding?

Russia isn’t a warmongering state

Russia is a bourgeoisie democracy, if Putin and his party didn't do what the Russian bourgeoisie wanted, they'd put someone else in power. The state is warmongering, the people aren't.

[–] HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

On point 1, outside of a few extremists I don’t think anyone considers all of Palestine to be a part of Hamas

"We're liberating the Palestinian people from Hamas" is a zionist talking point. Learn to recognize that pattern when it's used to justify action against other countries; eg sanctions against Cuba, Syria, Iran, North Korea, which primarily hurt the people.

See, I never said anything about liberation, support or justification, only that Palestine is not Hamas, yet I've been downvoted to crap. You are right on the patterns from those who wish to justify - did you also consider the patterns of "if you're not with us you're the enemy" and "everyone is against us"?

Most of the other Palestinian parties, some of which have literal had gun battles with Hamas have started working with them since Oct 7. The PLFP knows more about what's good for the future of the Palestinian people than either of us, and they're willing to work with Hamas.

Hamas has been defined as a terrorist organization for years, not sure where Israel is currently sitting (as recognized by intl bodies). Regarding this conflict, I just hope that everyone on both sides acting beyond the accepted scope are held accountable by intl courts or their own people.

America isn’t becoming a backwards, puritan and corrupt country

I mean it kinda always has been. The government has always been much more reactionary than the people, but it's always been a puritan country with legalized corruption, going as far back as Washington passing taxes to give his distilleries competitive advantage. I can link you some free history books on America, is there any time period that interests you?

Studied that one from an intl relations perspective. Parts of them I 100% agree with you, however believe these parts have blocked the underlying drives to reform. No thanks on history - im studying intl relations and armed conflict and already got ~100 readings this semester.

China...

The CPC has overwhelming support from the population, it does a better job of representing the people than most western democracies, evidenced by greatest increase in living standards for a large country in history. Do you think it's more likely the people have aggressive expansionist goals, or that you have an incomplete understanding?

I would argue the source material. Covid showed us that many countries would happily lie on their own reports to present a better picture to the intl community - China especially. Think like religion in the states - they may have a major religious population but how many keep the beliefs for fear of alienating themselves, indoctrination or because its what you're meant to do?

Russia isn’t a warmongering state

Russia is a bourgeoisie democracy, if Putin and his party didn't do what the Russian bourgeoisie wanted, they'd put someone else in power. The state is warmongering, the people aren't.

Sorry, bad choice of words. The country Russia and its people aren't, the state and govt are.