Update: I got banned from hexbear and grad lmao
this post was submitted on 11 Aug 2024
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MeanwhileOnGrad
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Pray tell, which of the instances have you spotted that are less leftist than lemmy.world? The only ones I can imagine are lemmy.ca and midwest.social, but that's just a guess.
Also what do you mean by "new left" movement? There are a lot of left movements, but not really any that I can think of that diverge greatly from previous left movements.
"Woke" doesn't mean anything. It's a vague, catch-all term used by chuds, for "lefties" and people who want social equality usually, which is obviously not a bad thing, so you must not be using it in that sense.
I have not seen a SINGLE one of those instances. And my instance federates with literally everything except for like 3 instances. I'm not saying you're making things up, but outside of extreme fringe communities, almost every (large) Lemmy instance is as "woke" or more "woke" than lemmy.world. lemmy.blahaj.zone, lemm.ee, lemmy.ml, probably even sh.itjust.works (that one's debatable), lemmy.dbzer0.com, sopuli.xyz... I can go on and on. Leftism is way more prevalent in most of those. And yes, the kind that says you shouldn't displace millions or be sexist.
A large chunk of the left has always been anti-Zionism and pro-self-determination, because Israel is literally modern-day colonization. This isn't anything new. The official government of Palestine is full-on Socialist, and it was founded 80 years ago (with other major leftist groups in Palestine dating back even before the Israeli colonization). It's just the difference between the "leftists" who are okay with an ethnostate perpetrating an ethnic cleansing (Israel), and the leftists who aren't.
For a lot of people that's part of the reason, but most of the reason is they're against the displacement, ethnic cleansing, and genocide of Palestinians that started during the colonization of the area by modern-day Israelis. The ruling party of Israel and most of the other parties in the government are descended from organizations that literally described themselves as terrorists, and butchered the population of Palestine since the early 1900s. And, get this, the dominating organizations during this era aligned themselves with Nazism – the Lehi (a faction of the Irgun, modern day Likud – Netanyahu's party and Israel's dominant party) proposed an alliance with Nazi Germany as they saw Great Britain as a larger threat to Jews. They described themselves and their members, I'm not even joking, as "National Bolshevik terrorists" (nazbols/communist nazis). Go figure.
Many of the members of government actively cheered on or committed genocide, and everyone alive knows someone who participated in the displacement and ethnic cleansing of Palestinians. The area didn't just go from its population of 90% Muslim and 2% Jewish in 1800, to 81% Muslim and 8% Jewish in 1890, to 32% Jewish in 1947, to 89% Jewish in 1948 (the year the Nakba/ethnic cleansing of Arabs started), using kind words and diplomacy. (Jewish Virtual Library). Europeans encouraged Jews to colonize the area (which hadn't been populated by Jews in large numbers since the 5th century) in order to get them out of the country (the early British Zionists in particular were keen on taking all the Jews in the UK and shipping them off to Israel, as antisemitism was the norm in western Europe until the whole World War 2 thing), and gave those newfound Israelis the weapons to blow up a whole lot of natives. These migrations were simply called Aliyah, and they happened in a few waves.
It is a state that is built upon, and cannot exist without, "Jewish supremacy". It's in the constitution, it's in the law, it's in their flag, it's in the Muslims & Arabs in the country not having the civil rights of Jews, the entirety of Israel exists specifically to be an ethnostate. And the foundation of Israel was by parties who aligned themselves with Nazi Germany, and who took great inspiration from them.
When you're "leftist" – that is, when you're for abolishing unjust hierarchies and moving towards social equality – the concept of Israel and its former and current actions is inherently counter to your ideology. There's absolutely no getting around that.
What words are these, exactly? If they're not slurs then I don't see what you're talking about. Unless you're referring to people talking about microaggressions – which is the linguistic phenomenon of biases against certain social groups being conveyed in language, which propogates harmful beliefs. You know, saying women or asians can't drive well, saying you wouldn't want to have a woman perform surgery on you, saying a guy hugging another guy is gay... obviously those are pretty shitty things to say.
Yeah nah man you're waffling. There is no "old left". The left is more or less the same philisophy-wise; there are socially conservative people and socially progressive people – you, my friend, seem to be describing yourself as a mildly socially conservative social democrat. There's nothing more old or authentic or original about your philosophy – it's just German centrism.
The usage of the term in the social progressive context literally dates back to the 1930s. That's almost certainly older than even your parents. How can you claim that that's characteristic of the "new left" when it's been around in use longer than your country's even existed?
Far as I'm concerned it's ethnostate vs ethnostate. Although I question how a diverse country can be an ethnostate.
Both regions have these roots though, with Gaza still having a terrorist organisation as its government.
again, both regions did. The region at the time was a proxy war between Axis forces and Allies. Israel later sided with Britain, and the Palestinians later sided with the Axis
Hey! You're leaving out the UN resolution to establish two states. Jews had to flee Palestine because the League of Arabs declared war on Israel. To this day, Jews still can't find a home for themselves in arab nations. It was also Palestine and the League of Arabs that refused the two-state resolution. So don't be implying there were no kind words and diplomacy.
uhhh, you do realise that Jews were also native to the area, right? Like long before Muslims colonised.
Can you prove this? From what I've read about their laws, there's nothing mentioning jewish supremacy. That is unless you consider the illegal settlements in the West Bank to be legitimate.
Wenn du glaubst, dass die progressiven Ansichten deiner Vergangenheit besser sind als der heutigen progressiven, dann sei es so. Aber das macht dich nicht viel besser als einen Konservativen. Zu glauben dass du zu einer besseren ««alten Linken»» gehörst, weil du nicht akzeptieren kannst, dass alle Menschen soziale Befreiung verdienen, macht dich einfach unreif.
Mein Gott, du bist also im Grunde genommen einfach ein Neokonservativer. Ich bin Linguist und ich kann dir garantieren, dass die Anzahl der Menschen, die das grammatische Geschlecht abschaffen wollen, auf ein paar unbedeutende Leute im Internet beschränkt ist.
Slurs sollten nicht benutzt werden. Punkt. Dass du denkst, tatsächliche Slurs seien in Ordnung, es sei denn, sie sind spezifisch das N-word oder so etwas, sagt viel über dich als Person aus. Offenbar ist dir das Wohl von queeren Menschen nicht besonders wichtig, wenn du es schlecht findest, dass man Menschen daran hindert, Beleidigungen gegen sie zu verwenden.
Die Menschheit wird wahrscheinlich innerhalb der nächsten drei Jahrzehnte wegen des Klimawandels ins Chaos stürzen, und du regst dich über die Leute auf, die Alarm schlagen? Hast du keinen Anstand?? Es ist über ein halbes Jahrhundert her, dass Wissenschaftler und Klimaaktivisten angefangen haben, lautstark auf das drohende Unheil durch den Klimawandel hinzuweisen, aber niemand hört zu. Die Leute kümmern sich nicht um Proteste, wenn diese niemanden stören. Die einzige Aktion, die jemals zu ernsthaften Veränderungen geführt hat, ist die, die den Frieden stört. Wenn ignorante Menschen wütender über einen verdammten Kuchen sind, der auf eine Glasabdeckung geworfen wird, als darüber, dass die Erde in Flammen aufgeht, dann ist das ihr eigenes Problem. Es gibt nichts mehr zu verlieren, wenn man die Leute wütend macht; wir erleben bereits ein Massensterben der meisten Arten auf dem Planeten.
Übrigens, Deutschland ist nicht das einzige Land auf der Welt, und die Berliner Mauer war nicht die einzige soziale Barriere, die existierte. Versuche nicht, die Kämpfe anderer zu minimieren, nur weil du denkst, dass dein Land der Mittelpunkt der Welt ist. Der Progressivismus hat nicht aufgehört, sich weiterzuentwickeln, als Deutschland wiedervereint wurde. Besonders wenn es um LGBTQ-Rechte geht – die Ehe für alle wurde in Deutschland erst 2017 legalisiert, und in Italien ist sie immer noch illegal. Es gibt derzeit einen Trend zu Antitransgesetzgebungen in der westlichen Welt. Ihr Leute wollt so tun, als hätten benachteiligte Gruppen Gleichberechtigung, nur weil Bürgerrechtsgesetze verabschiedet wurden, aber das ist eine Lüge. Du hast nicht mit den sozialen Problemen zu kämpfen, denen diese Gruppen ausgesetzt sind, und trotzdem glaubst du, ihnen sagen zu können, dass ihr Kampf vorbei ist. Du bist ein verdammter Feigling, weil du die Kämpfe dieser Menschen minimierst und auf 'die Gender-Irren' reduzierst. Und du bist ein Feigling, weil du den Völkermord an den Palästinensern im letzten Jahrhundert rechtfertigst, während du dich hinter der Lüge versteckst, dass Angriffe auf Israel «Antisemitismus» seien. Und für all die anderen Gruppen, über die du dich beschweren musst, sei es Einwanderer, Klimaaktivisten, was auch immer. Du bist auf den konservativen Empörungs-Köder hereingefallen und glaubst jetzt ihren Kulturkriegsmüll.
So, at what point should queerness in Palestine should be liberated? Because as you well know, being queer in Palestine is illegal, punishable by death.
Jesus Christ my guy. If you willingly look at all this, the history and facts of what Israel did and continues to do to Palestinians, and you still willingly go with the narrative that Israel isn't an ethnostate and isn't committing acts of Genocide, then there is no saving you. The Scholz ministry's propoganda has gone way up there in your head.
Nazis and alt-right nutjobs own the word "woke" as an insult. Being labelled "woke" is a badge of honor, all things considered, because it tells you that the right-wing lunatics really don't like you. You might want to change your strategy because it's genuinely funny to most people when someone uses it as an insult. It sounds like a parody of conservatives from 2014 YouTube. It's even amplified by you apparently thinking linguists (humanities specialists?) are some type of woke lesser.
I'm done with this conversation man. You're going to stay stuck in the 19th century for the rest of your life.
Ok I said I was done with talking but this comment in particular is funny. You're really that extremely against the SPD and the German left huh...
Maybe you're the Nazi if we think about it ;) After all, you're on the side of modern genocide. Have you considered that the Nazis got into power because of the centrists, the people "left nor right", refusing to take a stance against Nazism, instead fearmongering over the woke socialists and justifying the rise in power of the right as the left "pushing too far" and being "too radical"? You know, basic civil rights and all that extremist Marxist stuff.... Pretty analogous to what people like you are doing today, don't you think? "Oh what was left extremism then is fine, but what's left extremism now is the end of humanity".
Not that I disagree much of the modern SPD is pieces of shit. Because of their anti-Palestinian rhetoric and lack of action against Russia, not because of their "wokeness". But that's the entire German government, not localized to them.
But okay, okay, now I promise I really won't make a snarky response to your blatantly defamatory insults again. Go off on me. Call me those slurs you were saying were completely fine to use.
@sparkle@lemm.ee
as thoroughly entertaining as this whole debacle was. Both of you stop insulting each other, and stop casually using Nazi to describe things you don't like.