this post was submitted on 16 Sep 2024
104 points (95.6% liked)

Europe

1304 readers
446 users here now

News and information from Europe πŸ‡ͺπŸ‡Ί

(Current banner: La Mancha, Spain. Feel free to post submissions for banner images.)

Rules (2024-08-30)

  1. This is an English-language community. Comments should be in English. Posts can link to non-English news sources when providing a full-text translation in the post description. Automated translations are fine, as long as they don't overly distort the content.
  2. No links to misinformation or commercial advertising. When you post outdated/historic articles, add the year of publication to the post title. Infographics must include a source and a year of creation; if possible, also provide a link to the source.
  3. Be kind to each other, and argue in good faith. Don't post direct insults nor disrespectful and condescending comments. Don't troll nor incite hatred. Don't look for novel argumentation strategies at Wikipedia's List of fallacies.
  4. No bigotry, sexism, racism, antisemitism, dehumanization of minorities, or glorification of National Socialism.
  5. Be the signal, not the noise: Strive to post insightful comments. Add "/s" when you're being sarcastic (and don't use it to break rule no. 3).
  6. If you link to paywalled information, please provide also a link to a freely available archived version. Alternatively, try to find a different source.
  7. Light-hearted content, memes, and posts about your European everyday belong in !yurop@lemm.ee. (They're cool, you should subscribe there too!)
  8. Don't evade bans. If we notice ban evasion, that will result in a permanent ban for all the accounts we can associate with you.
  9. No posts linking to speculative reporting about ongoing events with unclear backgrounds. Please wait at least 12 hours. (E.g., do not post breathless reporting on an ongoing terror attack.)

(This list may get expanded when necessary.)

We will use some leeway to decide whether to remove a comment.

If need be, there are also bans: 3 days for lighter offenses, 14 days for bigger offenses, and permanent bans for people who don't show any willingness to participate productively. If we think the ban reason is obvious, we may not specifically write to you.

If you want to protest a removal or ban, feel free to write privately to the mods: @federalreverse@feddit.org, @poVoq@slrpnk.net, or @anzo@programming.dev.

founded 2 months ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] gon@lemm.ee 43 points 3 days ago (2 children)

I despise Hungary's current policy and social positions as much as the next guy, but I find it hard to believe contraction is the answer.

I'd be much more inclined to support a sort of containment procedure for toxic members, such as Hungary; rather than removing them from the Union simply remove them from meaningful power and influence in Union business until reforms are enacted. Maybe this is silly and I'm assuming this isn't really something that there's provisions for in EU regs but still.

Just my thoughts.

[–] 14th_cylon@lemm.ee 23 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I'd be much more inclined to support a sort of containment procedure for toxic members

Which is something that can be theoretically done, but it requires unanimous support. So all orban needs is one asshole friend, like fico, for it to remain just a theory.

There is no mechanism for expelling the member.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_7_of_the_Treaty_on_European_Union

[–] gon@lemm.ee 9 points 3 days ago

Oh that was pretty much what I was thinking. Unanimity does make it a bit of a pain in the ass...

[–] alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml 5 points 3 days ago (1 children)

What would containment consist of? They can't put up a border. They probably could crush them economically ala greece, but that would just accelerate the rise of fascism.

[–] gon@lemm.ee 12 points 3 days ago

I was thinking something like withholding their seats in the Parliament and keeping OrbΓ‘n from the Council. No representation in the EU but still a member on paper.

My issue with kicking Hungary out is that, ideally, the EU would like to include Hungary; expansion is the ultimate goal. By removing Hungary now we're just making more trouble for ourselves down the line... I just think a less bureaucratic---perhaps cautionary---measure can get us the best of both worlds: Hungary has limited influence on the EU's politics, but there's no need to go through the process of excision and reintegration, down the line.

Not sure if this is silly, but it sounds reasonable to me.